Honda Insight Forum banner

which one is idler pulley? big or small?

29K views 39 replies 20 participants last post by  biododge1 
#1 ·
hello all, got some terrific advice once again from an older thread regarding a LOUD WHIRRING NOISE that I have, a diagnosis of a bad idler pulley seems to have hit the nail on the head, a poster offered the following advice...

"Loosen the center bolt to the pully.....12mm I think.
Use the horizontal bolt to loosen the tension on the belt. The one that points forward and rearward.(10mm?) I think you screw it out to lossen. The pully should spin freely without any noise or min. drag. or roughness."

My questions are...

1) of the two pulleys turning the serpentine belt, which is the idler pulley? the larger or smaller of the two?

2) would it be possible to just lube up / apply dressing to the existing pulley as a fix?

3) I've put 2k miles on it with the noise already, would driving another 2k until it warms up enough for the snow to melt damage the car further?

4) How do I reduce tension on the serpentine belt so I can remove it and replace the idler pulley?

and lastly...
5) does anyone know of a link to a manual or a place I can purchase a manual similar to a "Haynes Repair Manual" for the 1st gen Insight?

once again, thanks to all, I am sure I will get some great responses
 
See less See more
#2 · (Edited)
hello all, got some terrific advice once again from an older thread regarding a LOUD WHIRRING NOISE that I have, a diagnosis of a bad idler pulley seems to have hit the nail on the head, a poster offered the following advice...

"Loosen the center bolt to the pully.....12mm I think.
Use the horizontal bolt to loosen the tension on the belt. The one that points forward and rearward.(10mm?) I think you screw it out to lossen. The pully should spin freely without any noise or min. drag. or roughness."

My questions are...

1) of the two pulleys turning the serpentine belt, which is the idler pulley? the larger or smaller of the two?

2) would it be possible to just lube up / apply dressing to the existing pulley as a fix?

3) I've put 2k miles on it with the noise already, would driving another 2k until it warms up enough for the snow to melt damage the car further?

4) How do I reduce tension on the serpentine belt so I can remove it and replace the idler pulley?

and lastly...
5) does anyone know of a link to a manual or a place I can purchase a manual similar to a "Haynes Repair Manual" for the 1st gen Insight?

once again, thanks to all, I am sure I will get some great responses

http://www.hondaautomotiveparts.com/auto/jsp/mws/prddisplay.jsp?inputstate=5&catcgry1=INSIGHT&catcgry2=2000&catcgry3=3DR+DX+%28A%2FC%29&catcgry4=KA5MT&catcgry5=ENGINE+MOUNTING+BRACKET

1. I think your looking for item # 9 + associated parts

2. Might work on a temporary basis, but why cheap out, your bearing is running dry. Fix it before it breaks a belt and strands you.

3. Borrow a buds garage & see #2

4. Adjust bolt #8

5. Page 249 of this link, but they come up on Ebay very often.
https://techinfo.honda.com/rjanisis/...000MAINIDX.pdf
 
#4 ·
The Idler pulley is either 3 or 9 on the diagram above. The idler pulley is #3 if you have a non air-conditioned vehicle. The idler pulley is #9 if you have an air-conditioned vehicle.
I replaced the serpentine belt also. The serpentine belt is #2 if you have a non air-conditioned vehicle and #6 if you have an air-conditioned vehicle.
Bolt #8 will tension the belt by positioning the pulley. The is no auto-tensioner. Nut #19 will secure the position of the pulley. There is a specific torque setting used when you secure nut #19.
Please refer to the service manual for the specific torque setting. Service manuals are on sale at Helminc.com.
No lubrication is used for this. Lubrication of any type may cause deterioration of the serpentine belt.
Replacing the idler pulley on my vehicle seemed to reduce the noise from the engine bay. If the idler pulley were to seize and/or the serpentine belt were to break, then the water pump would no longer pump coolant.
The idler pulley is much smaller than the crankshaft pulley. The idler pulley is smaller than the water pump pulley. This means that the idler pulley will turn more rotations and wear out much faster than the crankshaft and water pump bearings.
 
#5 ·
My questions are...

1) of the two pulleys turning the serpentine belt, which is the idler pulley? the larger or smaller of the two?
2) would it be possible to just lube up / apply dressing to the existing pulley as a fix?
3) I've put 2k miles on it with the noise already, would driving another 2k until it warms up enough for the snow to melt damage the car further?
4) How do I reduce tension on the serpentine belt so I can remove it and replace the idler pulley?
and lastly...
5) does anyone know of a link to a manual or a place I can purchase a manual similar to a "Haynes Repair Manual" for the 1st gen Insight?
once again, thanks to all, I am sure I will get some great responses
AKACHAN, Based on your questions, my strong advice it to take it to a mechanic. It sounds like you don't have the facility, the experience, the reference and probably the tools either to accomplish this job.

We see a lot of people on this web-site who are attracted to these cars, because they are frugal, but trying to save money on maintenance or delaying repair such as in this particular case is ridiculous.

Just my opinion and advice, which hopefully will save you aggravation, time and money in the long run. Good Luck.
 
#6 ·
Akachan........Socal mountains?........Please be more specific.

Willie
If you put a better location, someone may be nearby to assist.
 
#7 ·
Akachan is broken down in lake arrowhead area

Yep, so my car dropped the serpentine belt, though it's still intact, and the idler pulley as I pulled onto my street. Coasted into the neighbors driveway where it still sits. Honda dealership would have to order part and can't tell me if it's gonna be metal or plastic when it gets there. I am in twin peaks / lake arrowhead area if anyone can help out with repair or recommend someone who can. I have $$$ , mmj, Clippers / Kings tix, free passes to Snow Valley... Lemme know (310) 880-2275 cory. I do all my own oil changes, brakes, but have never gotten this deep. It seems fairly simple to attempt on my own. Thanks to all for the info on performing the repair, will keep u posted.
 
#9 ·
Yep, so my car dropped the serpentine belt, though it's still intact, and the idler pulley as I pulled onto my street. Coasted into the neighbors driveway where it still sits. Honda dealership would have to order part and can't tell me if it's gonna be metal or plastic when it gets there. I am in twin peaks / lake arrowhead area if anyone can help out with repair or recommend someone who can. I have $$$ , mmj, Clippers / Kings tix, free passes to Snow Valley... Lemme know (310) 880-2275 cory. I do all my own oil changes, brakes, but have never gotten this deep. It seems fairly simple to attempt on my own. Thanks to all for the info on performing the repair, will keep u posted.
Good luck. What's your mileage?
 
#8 ·
You can drive it from your neighbors house to yours even with the belt off.
It's a very simple task. The hardest part is removing the aero panels. When adjusting the belt tension. Don't "over tension" it. Just "snug" will do.

HTH
Willie
 
#10 ·
Yep I know it still dives w/out belt, had to go 1/4 mile after belt dropped, it's in neighbors driveway bc it's level and my driveway is roughly 7% grade. Gonna jack it up and try to do work myself. Suggest going in from above or below or a little of both? I am not averse to hiring a mechanic, trouble is in my tiny town of 10,000 no one knows sh*t about this car. Actually, even at the couple of Honda dealerships I've gone by in LA no one knows about the 1st gen Insight. I work every day until Feb 5, so will begin repair adventure then.
 
#13 ·
new parts here, about to install

Ok, got new idler pulley and going to do install tomorrow. I have all of the necessary aero panels removed, car is jacked up, the pulley install area is easy to get to...of course, have some questions...

The idler pulley and "idle pulley bolt" and "idle pulley adjuster bolt" and both collars all fell off while driving...along with nuts, bolts, and washers....I have all of the parts and tools (minus torque wrench) and am ready to go and install, I just need some info which I haven't been able to find here on the site...Mainly,

How do I put it all together? Does the "back" end of the idle pulley adjuster bolt snug around the idle pulley? Where and how does the idle pulley bolt attach onto the side of the engine?

I know I am an amateur but I am really dedicated to learning all there is to know about repairing this car so I can drive it for the rest of my life, or until I can afford a reliable pure electric vehicle. Also, no professional privateer or dealer mechanics in my area have a clue about this car, believe me I've asked them. thanks for all help.
 
#14 ·
While your Insight is "special" in many ways, the
belt idler pulley arrangement is pretty much the same in any
Honda; other brand cars too. So, any competent mechanic should be able
to help you. If you just show up with your new parts,
he should quickly show/tell you how it all goes together....
 
#15 ·
idler pulley bracket

is it possible to post pictures in my reply here on insightcentral? My idler pulley bracket seems "off", ie, the hole for the tensioner bolts for the idler pulley looks like it may have sheared. The tensioner bolts are straight / undamaged. I want to get the wonderful contributors' opinion. I was aware of idler pulley going bad but continued to drive until it actually fell off, which may have f*cked up the bracket. Anyone had similar issue?
 
#16 ·
Installation instructions

OK akachan. This will go by part numbers in the diagram previously referred to.

Part #7 can be replaced. If so I would get part #7, part #16, and #22. If you are unsure, get those parts anyway.

The following assumes that part #7 is OK. Part #7 has a slot in the end of it that part #12 will go through.
Part #12 has internal threading and part #8 has external threading. Part #8 has a slot in one end of it and a nut at the end of it.

Put #12 through the slot in #7 as indicated. Thread #8 into the internal threads of #12. Put the slot end of #8 into the very end of part #7.

Now, when you turn the nut end of #8, it will have the effect of pulling part #12 towards it. This is what positions the idler pulley and tensions the belt.

Parts #10, (#3 or #9), #11, #13, and #19 go on to the end of #12.

When you torque down #19 sufficiently, then you can no longer position the idler pulley or tension the belt.
Loosen #19 to adjust the belt tension, and tighten #19 before driving the vehicle.

How tight should the belt be? Again, I do not have my manual with me. There may be a deflection method. I got a pricey "belt tension tool" from Majestic. The part # is listed in the service manual.
Elsewhere in insightcentral.net, someone advised -- "not too tight".

I think that you should have a mechanic check it or do it with torque wrenches and socket set(s). You might be able to do without the "belt tension tool."

You should buy two torque wrenches. The one used for installing a wheel would handle 80 ft-pd. This should fit an 1/2" socket.
As I recall, the one for bolt #19 would be 22 N-M. This should best fit a 3/8# socket. Do it right. The value of your vehicle should go higher as gas prices go higher.
 
#17 ·
3banger thanks

thanks! your instructions are very easy for me to understand.

So the 'slot' in part #7 isn't just a round hole pretty much the same diameter as the bolt, part #12? It's a rounded 'slot' approx. 1-1/12" long with the same diameter as part #12? I thought the hole for part #12 had sheared when the idler pulley fell off and created a 'slot'.

I am eager to learn as much as possible about this car and cars in general and I can't understand why it would be a slot (that allows for movement) rather than a rigid hole?

I put an ad on craigslist and have a shadetree mechanic coming by with some torque wrenches to help out tomorrow. I am not one of these ultra frugal douches trying to rip everyone off. Rather, my love for this car means I trust no one to work on it besides myself. Sorry to you honest mechanics out there, but I've been close friends with too many of the crooks.

Southern California routinely has the highest gas prices and longest commutes in the nation, so when gas is at $5.50/gal I'm NOT going to sell my Insight for $10k like I easily could. I am really trying to understand as much as I can about this car so I can buy a couple more, fix minor issues, and resell them. Anybody local wanna go in with me?
 
#18 ·
Great Success !!

I installed the idler pulley and re-set the serpentine belt. The car seems ok. I had to refill the radiator reservoir. When the pulley initially fell off it had boiled over. Gonna test it out up here in the mountains tomorrow when my wife is around in case I need assistance. If all seems well I'll drive it the 75 miles to work in LA instead of Miss Piggy the gas guzzler. I've been driving my 05 Element 24mpg to work for the past 19 days. I'm hoping that will be over. Here's a poem I wrote about it:

... tension seems OK
it's silent, but could it also be deadly?

I'm concerned about overheating ...

Gonna take it out on the highway
tomorrow.
Not the freeway,

just the highway.




I feel confident enough that the little red baby Akachan is back in running form (knock on wood) that I washed up from working on it, put on my velour track suit, opened a mini keg of Dortmunder Actien Brauerei Original, and am relaxing by the fireplace. Ahh...
Thank you everyone on insightcentral. Of course, I'll let you know if I'm stranded on the side of the road...

BTW, Is the serpentine belt supposed to go on the inside or outside of the idler pulley?

c * o * a * s * t *
 
#19 ·
"I'm concerned about overheating ..."

You say refilled the little tank, but did you also check/fill the radiator
itself..? A boil-over can empty the coolant system very quickly.

As you may know, the rad should be totally full. When the engine heats,
the coolant expands, and any excess is pushed into the expansion tank.
When the engine cools, fluid is sucked back into the rad as necessary.

So watch the expansion tank level for a couple trips.

Belt-wise; smooth pulleys face the smooth side of belts....
 
#20 ·
Thanks to all, Akachan is running fine

Zvu zvu zvu knock on wood.... I've sobered up since writing my car repair poem. Put 750 miles on my baby Akachan and she's running great! The idler pulley was relatively easy to install and really the hardest part was removing and reinstalling the under aero panels. This is the most in depth repair I've ever done in my own and it would never have been possible without the help of the members of this amazing forum. If anyone out there needs advice dealing with replacing the idler pulley plz call during regular hours PST ( three UNO zero) eighty eight zero - tu tu seven 5. Thx again!
 
#21 · (Edited)
Just replaced my idler tension pulley wheel tonight. About 60 minutes all told from jacking up the car to putting it back down and cleaning up. I inspected the old bearing out of the car, and it was trashed... no wonder it was howling and whining. It felt "dry and gritty" spinning it by hand.

Got the nylon bearing from Autozone for about $57. Came with some extra bolts and spacers I did not need to use. Just reused the original bearing races and washer/nut that came on the original Insight idler pulley wheel.

You MUST get at it from below, and it's a bit tight. You will need:
10mm to remove aero panels
12mm wrench to remove the nut on the bearing wheel (had to smack mine with a hammer to get it loosened). Do this first before loosening the belt adjuster.
8mm socket to loosen the tensioner nut (you must crank the bolt clock-wise to loosen the bearing wheel... counter-intuitive)
Once you loosen the belt, you can continue to remove the nut holding all the washers and bearing races on the old idler pulley. Be ready to catch them as they all fall out once you remove the nut. Even better, remove it as a unit, so you can see the relationship of the front and back parts to re-assemble correctly.
Replace the old parts as needed on the new bearing (doesn't matter which is front or back...it's identical on the new wheel).

Replace the bearing on the threaded rod, making sure the adjuster bolt "flange" is properly mounted in the groove, so it can turn properly to move the bearing out to tighten the belt.

The new bearing has about 1mm of clearance to the bracket, so if it rubs, something is wrong, and you don't have the mounting hardware on the back of the bearing.

Before tightening, everything up, put the belt back on, making sure the proper "serpentine" pathway is taken (belt is on the rear aspect of the bearing). I had to line up the crank, A/C clutch and bearing, and half get the belt on the upper water pump wheel...and then crank the water pump by hand to slowly walk the belt onto the grooves. Make sure the car is in neutral, so you don't fight the transmission, or move the car while on a jack-stand. I suppose I could have loosened the bearing a great deal, but there is so little room to turn the adjuster bolt, this was easier for me.

Once tightened appropriately (about 5mm of belt play), then tighten down the bearing nut to 22-lb-ft.

Start the car briefly to make sure the belt stays on the tracks, with no rubbing. Check the belt play again to ensure it stayed tight.

When satisfied, bolt on the aero pans, drive away and enjoy the great "sound of silence" once again.

Cheers!

PS: Replacement serpentine belts are $12 to $18 at Autozone.
 
#22 ·
What is the top pulley that you see from the top when you first pop the hood? I think it's the water pump pulley, but if I'm wrong I hope anyone can chime in.

I have been experiencing this same whizzing, whirling, crazy sounds coming from right up front until the cars gets warmed up. In this cold winter we have had its been really noisy in the past month. I have driven my car for about 20k miles. Odometer is currently at 120,880 miles.
Located in NE Indiana if anyone nearby wants to give their 2 cents in person.
Is Autozone still a decent place to pick up for around the $50-60 mark?

Thanks for all the previous great responses, to help me have some idea of what I need to tackle.
 
#23 ·
Yes, the top-most wheel on the serpentine belt pathway is the waterpump pulley. If you have A/C, that's located near the bottom, I believe (trying to recall from memory...)

For purposes of changing out the idler pulley wheel... it doesn't matter. I think with 120K on your odometer, it is most likely the idler pulley. Just get a new one, and be good for another 100K+ and be done with it...

You might find one online at Majestic Honda or at RockAuto... I've had luck buying parts online there. I went to Autozone, as I didn't want to be stranded if it had a catastrophic failure within a few days of getting really loud....
 
#24 ·
Well, I had this crazy whirling sounds mysteriously coming from the front area of my car a few weeks ago. I decided to search here to try and figure out what was the problem without getting my hands or clothes dirty.

So I found myself scratching my head when everyone kept referring to certain numbers in the poor parts diagram. I had my camera handy while taking stuff apart, and decided I should snap a few pics, and add some editing.

Here are 2 shots with the wheel removed and the inner splash shield to get to the pulleys.





The Water Pump pulley is clearly visible from above, but the rest are not to easy to see. So while I was trying to determine where my noise was coming from, I did not know which pulley was which. Now the novice DIYer can have a little more knowledge.

This repair was super easy.
If I had planned a little ahead of time, I would have ordered everything from RockAuto.com instead of getting the only available pulley in town from Advance Auto and the only available belt at O'Reillys.
O'Reillys = Serpentine belt: Gates #K050440 - $18.99
Advance Auto = Idler Pulley: Dayco #89087 - $56.99

RockAuto: Pulley: $34.99 and Belt: $7.23 (clearance)

Hope everyone has good luck with this repair. Followed post 21, and it helped a lot.
 
#26 ·
Yeah, that bearing was totally seized up too! I have replaced a few belts in my time, and have always had to ask if they were ready for replacement. This one, I knew I shouldn't even drive anymore unless I was begging to be stranded somewhere while we received 11" of snow!
 
#27 ·
Yeah, I think all of the Insights are reaching the age where the bearings are seizing up. I just had mine seize up couple of weeks ago on my way home from dinner.

See my other thread with video showing the difference in engine noise before and after replacing the belt and bearing.

Another bonus, my MPG went back up. Had no idea the bad bearing was sucking away so much power from the engine.

David
 
#29 ·
I got Timken 203FF for $5 at autozone, hammered out the old bearing, and pushed the new one in carefully using large sockets.
Awesome news!, my idler bearing was starting to chirp and that it a super good fix! Thanks!
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top