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Old 01-10-2017, 10:49 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Really strange IMA issue, Please help!!

hey guys, long time no talk! frankly it's because the car has not been giving me any issues up until this past week. For the past year or so, the IMA battery has been flawless as long as i grid charge and discharge the battery around once a month, sometimes less. About a week ago i decided it was time for a grid charge/ discharge. everything was done the way i usually do: grid charge all the way up, suck it down to around 5 volts, charge it all the way back up, bring it down to about .5 volts, charge it back up, bring it down to .05 volts, charge it back up, done.

This time after the grid charge i got an error code almost immediately P1449: battery module overheating. I thought this was strange so i let the car sit for 24 hours and tried again in the morning, again i got the same error code after about a mile driving down the road. today i decided to pull the cover to see if maybe the IMA exhaust fan is not kicking on? after pulling the cover i plugged the car into the grid charger to see if the fan was gonna spin, and sure enough it did. I decided to go for a drive with everything opened up to see if the p1449 would take longer to pop up and to listen for the fan to kick in, neither of which were successful. The fan never kicked on and the code came on a mile down the road. I have never had the error light come on after a grid charge, let alone a code that wont go away. This is very strange as every time before this grid charge the battery worked perfect. I can even say that the IMA worked much better just before the grid charge and was my only IMA light in months; it also stayed away when i reset the error codes.

Once i reset the IMA the battery works as it should until the code comes on, nothing out of the ordinary as to why this is occurring either.

Information that may contribute to the issue: My guess is a temperature probe is on the fritz somewhere and went bad during its last grid charge. In my car, i have one of the PNP MIMA systems from Mike D. i specifically remember installing a temperature probe in the battery pack to monitor the heat of the pack and cycle the fan on when need be. Is it possible that this temperature probe went bad, making it think the pack is hot and throwing the p1449 code? i'm also not too sure why the fan is not cycling on if the system thinks the pack is warm. i am really at a loss as to what else would cause this overheating code with next to no strain on the IMA system.

So this is where i am at, trying to figure out why i'm getting the heat code when heat does not seem to be the underlying issue at hand... ANY HELP IS EXTREMELY APPRECIATED.
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Old 01-11-2017, 10:02 AM   #2 (permalink)
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hey guys, any ideas? the IMA light is on at all times now? has anyone had a similar experience where a grid charge hurt the system?
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Old 01-11-2017, 01:49 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I have a feeling Keith is going to tell you that you went way too low with the discharges unfortunately. That's much lower than the kind of voltages that are typically recommended (60 iirc). What could be is sometimes they require a longer grid charge as they get older and lose charge efficiency. Try referencing one of (I believe eli's threads) about grid charging longer than 24 hours. Some people are seeing they need 36. I am thinking with how low you took your battery and how many times that you hurt it, but maybe it just needs a longer grid charge. Just be sure to follow their method to a T. Another thing you could look into is sometimes they recommend doing a couple hours on the grid charger so the car accepts it then doing I believe three forced charges so it charges at a higher amperage then charge the rest with a grid charger.

I hope things work out for you.
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Old 01-11-2017, 01:50 PM   #4 (permalink)
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I noticed you have a MIMA, have you tried googling "pack wack"? Sometimes that restores some usability and can be done a lot easier than the whole rigmarole of grid charging.
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Old 01-11-2017, 01:53 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Have you tried hooking the fan up to a 9v battery to make sure that it's actually functional? They can and do fail. (nevermind, missed that you got it working with the grid charger)

The batteries are monitored at either the stick or cell level iirc, it's possible with the frequent deep discharges that you have a cell that's absolutely trash and throwing off a lot of heat. I would look into your taps and see if you can narrow down which stick it may be.

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Old 01-12-2017, 04:45 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Did you get a P1449-72 or 1449-73? 72 is module overheating and has to do with the 4 thermistors; 73 is cell overheating and has to do with the PTC strips (strips attach to each stick and touch each cell)... My guess would be 73. I think I'd guess mechanical malfunction or you wasted a cell in your discharge/charge process. Monthly deep discharges to that low level and grid charge - 3 times - seems like a lot of discharging and charging. How long have you been doing that and have you actually needed to do that to keep the pack functional? If a long time, then wow, kind of cool the pack has lasted as long it it has. If 'needing to do', then I wouldn't be surprised if this last discharge and charge were the straw that broke this camels back...
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Old 01-12-2017, 05:26 PM   #7 (permalink)
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well the truth hurts but at least its the honest truth. i've done this for about 2 years now, my pack was on the fritz throwing a p1447 so i grid charged and deep discharged the pack down to about these specs and it ran like a champ. Granted i didn't do this every single month, i would estimate 10-15 of these sessions over the past two years, more so in the past year while it has sat for a period of time up at college. this is to my own dismay on not really reading up as much as a probably should have on grid charging. it was to my belief that frequent grid charging was of benefit to the pack but i guess there is a thing as too much maintenance. at this point in time i look to yall as what the second best step would be to take in this situation. it's obvious the best step would be to replace the pack, but at this point in time i cannot afford that, im in college so ill drive around without the IMA if it comes to that (and trust me, i'm certain that time has come). Do i try to Pack Wack or do i attempt to do another series or grid charging? i guess the question is which has the greatest potential for doing the most good if in fact a cell is on the fritz. i realize the day is likely here and i will not revive that cell(s), but as a last ditch effort, what would be the best step to take from here? obviously deep discharging is out of the picture here as that looks to be an issue.

perhaps a 36 hour charge and then let it sit, then discharge slightly? im man enough to say i am horrible with electrical, so it is likely my next best guess will kill the pack for good, if it is not already. to be honest I've just let the IMA light stay on for the past two weeks because i wanted to pack to rest.

i really appreciate your alls help, im just wondering what my best shot in the dark is at this point in time? if i acted blindly i would grid charge and then try to pack wack it, but odds are thats not a great idea, i really don't know.

again thank you all so much, at the minimum at least i now have some closure as to the cause of my issues.
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Old 01-12-2017, 05:42 PM   #8 (permalink)
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You probably need more frequent grid charges. I would avoid discharges all together from now on. See how long it will run on a grid charge until the IMA comes on and then maybe halve or three quarter that time and set that as your charging interval.
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Old 01-12-2017, 07:47 PM   #9 (permalink)
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hmm, I don't think the problem is totally clear, a closed case. Was it 1449-73 or -72? Seems like it's possible one of the little orange PTC thingys is spazzing-out - though I don't really know how robust those are... If you got a -73, why not try bypassing the PTC system as a test to see if you still get the code? It's not hard to do and is reversible...

The PTC thingys only throw a code if temperature is WAYYYY high (according to the advanced troubleshooting guide). Frankly, I have a hard time understanding what run-of-the-mill type of problem could possibly cause one to register a bona fide code. A cell so bad that it's a virtual shorted cell? That's what I was thinking originally...

Same thing kind of applies to the -72 - it takes a really high temperature. Here it's difficult because you've got to raise the temperature of 4 thermistors on separate sticks - so in essence it takes whole pack heating to trigger that code. Doesn't sound like you've driven long enough during these troubles to achieve such a temp increase...

OK, so I re-read your original post, and I'm not convinced you HAVE an overheating code. I've been taking your word for it, but all you say is "1449"... The 1449 has 4 subcodes, only 2 of which are over heating related. The more common subcode is 78, 'pack deterioration'...

-It's possible either of the temp sensors have malfunctioned, either the thermistors or the PTC system. I actually think it'd be easier for the thermistors to get messed up, as they're taped to the sticks and if you've messed with the pack at all they can get jostled...

-it's possible you fried a single cell or more and it's heating very quickly and triggering a true PTC-related code. I think this is somewhat of a long shot though...

-I think the most likely thing going on is that you're not getting an overheating code, but rather, just the run-of-the-mill 1449-78. Whether you've been deep cycling for 2 years or not as a maintenance strategy is probably beside the point: just this last session, it's possible you so deeply reversed a cell or more that it didn't come back like it should. You end up with a pack being stunted by that one or more cells. Not sure exactly how it works, but it seems like you could have most cells charged to full, and one or more charged to practically nothing. The car tries to charge the pack but the full cells/taps hit the upper threshold right away. Since it can't charge anymore you get the P1449-78...

Anyway, it's fun at the moment to guess about what's going on. But you really just need to come back with the full trouble code, or explain why you think it's an overheating problem, etc... We'd kind of hope it's just a sensor malfunction, especially a PTC malfunction - because that's easy to bypass. But it's probably not. You could still get the pack going but it'd likely involve finding the offending stick/s and replacing them...
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Old 01-13-2017, 01:32 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Try an email to Mike D at: 99mpginsight@charter.net.
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