A friend of mine pulled the complete text for me. I won't copy and paste them for you. But here are some details bellow. Feel free to get a full copy for yourself if you like as previously posted. Or ask the dealership who is siting the SB against you to show the full text to you.
SB 00-070:
Tells the technicians to replace the whole battery for any battery problem and to not open the unit. If the battery module appears to have been opened , tampered with , or damaged Honda will back charge the dealership $50 battery diagnostic fee. If the core is determined to be unusable in part of in whole the dealership can also be back charged an additional $3,000.
( This explains why they never want to service / test the battery itself )
SB 06-085:
Under certain conditions for 2002 to 2006 Honda vehicles all warranties may be extended by up to 5% of the mileage. This does not effect the time limits. Honda district service managers have to pre-approve all warranty millage extensions.
( This reads allot like keep good customers happy kind of policy... so the District service manager could still give a good customer the extended warranty from 150,000 to up to the 157,500 miles. )
SB 06-026:
This was the 1st IMA battery extension to 10yr 157,500 Miles that only applied to select states and only on Honda Insight models 2002 - 2004 bought or leased between April 13, 2002 and November 7 , 2006.
SB 06-027:
This added to the 1st one above by expanding the warranty to all 2000 - 2004 Honda Insights to 10 years and 150,000 miles. Still was limited to those select few state.
SB 06-057:
This was the one that extended the extended IMA battery warranty to the rest of the 43 U.S. states not already included in the first two above. This applies to 2000 - 2004 Insights for up to 10 years and 150,000 miles.
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The story behind all of this is that Honda lost a Class action law suit and was forced to extend the warranty coverage in SB 06-026. Then SB 06-027 came out to cover their asses because there was already a legal precedent in those states for climate effecting the modules. So in SB 06-027 Honda didn't want to loose another class action law suit so they just gave the extra carrot. Even though this extra carrot is a bit smaller than what the court ordered in the first one. Then with SB 06-057 Honda looks to be cutting their losses again sense there was already a legal precedent for this model of car. Besides, there really aren't that many Insights on the road anyway. So they extend the coverage to all 2000 - 2004 Insights in the U.S.
I think what the service tech where you are taking your Insight to is getting confused about is the talk about the first series of Insights covered in SB 06-026. The lease or bought by April 13 2002 to November 7 , 2006 only applies to the first group of 2002 - 2004 Insights in those select few states. These are the only Insights with the 157,500 Mile policy, everyone else is only 150,000 miles.
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Still if they are already misreading the SB I wouldn't really expect them to get it right now... or maybe they are just scared of the $3,000 back charge Honda will hit them with if they mess up... so instead of getting paid they end up having done your work for free and having to pay Honda $3,000.
Still if they are already misreading the SB I wouldn't really expect them to get it right now... or maybe they are just scared of the $3,000 back charge Honda will hit them with if they mess up... so instead of getting paid they end up having done your work for free and having to pay Honda $3,000.
Thanks. Just to clarify it is not just the service tech at the dealer *mis*reading the service bulletin, the "customer support" at American Honda agrees with him.
Is there any way I can get the full text of these without shelling out more money? American Honda said they would fax them to me, but apparently that went the same route that my supposed warranty did. The dealer won't provide them to me as yet, I went by there today...
Is there any way I can get the full text of these without shelling out more money?
Not that I know of.
The people you can buy them from on-line ( ~$30 ) warn against redistributing copies.
I guess ultimately Honda is the one that made and released the service bulletin so Honda the company should be able to give copies out to anybody they like.
As for who are you gonna call???
Sadly just like with allot of customer service these days it have to spend large amounts of time on the phone, repeating your story over and over again to person after person... I think every person in the country has had several horror stories about calling a customer service number.
There is no magic pill here... 90%+ of the people who have reported / posted about IMA battery issues have all had things resolved without allot of the hassles you are fighting with... only about 10% of those I've read about had to call Honda Customer service and those that did got it resolved...
Now did you call Honda Customer service yourself? Or, did you ask the Honda Dealer to call Honda customer service?
Have tried yet to just go to a different dealer with the car?
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Or skip the whole thing and fix it yourself... while not free and it does take a fair amount of care and time on your part... it will be cheaper than paying Honda to do the work out of warranty.
Now did you call Honda Customer service yourself? Or, did you ask the Honda Dealer to call Honda customer service?
Have tried yet to just go to a different dealer with the car?
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Or skip the whole thing and fix it yourself... while not free and it does take a fair amount of care and time on your part... it will be cheaper than paying Honda to do the work out of warranty.
I called Honda Customer service myself. I will be calling them today to see about faxing me the service bulletins. I will also be requesting a written rejection of my warranty.
I haven't tried going to a different dealer for two reasons. One, is that I have to shell out again for the diagnostic. And second is that this apparently is already a case connected with my VIN and when the dealer contacts Honda, I believe they'll be notified that I've been rejected. I'm not against trying another dealer, but I think it's a last resort since Customer Service themselves are sided against me.
And I haven't ruled out fixing it myself, but I work 10 hour days and I'm inexperienced with this type of work. So, that would be a last-last resort. I'll report back if I make any head way with CS today.
edit: Interesting statement just made by Customer Service to me this morning. They were explaining to me that the warranty is VIN specific. I countered that the first CS rep I talked to last Friday initially told me only my battery module was under warranty and then when she called the dealer to resolve the issue, that I was then told the warranty didn't apply. When I divulged this, first Customer Service tried to tell me the first CS rep must have misunderstood. I asked how that could be if it was VIN specific and I had provided my VIN? They then told me that apparently the decision was made by the dealer and they don't over-ride the dealer's decision. Sounds fishy. Maybe another dealer is the way to go.
Customer Service also told me that they would absolutely not send me a written rejection. "That's not how Honda handles these matters."
Last edited by mrredrocker; 02-09-2009 at 12:45 PM.
Maybe Honda CS meant that they could not force a dealer to do the repair if the dealer does not want to do it? Perhaps try asking Honda CS if you can take it to another dealer and they will approve having the work done there?
What is the name and location of the dealer who is giving you all these problems? So I can be sure to avoid them.
Not all Honda dealers are customer-friendly. I have had problems with the nearest dealer to my home so I go to one that is about a 45 minute drive away. It's oh so much better dealing with Curtis-Ryan Honda in Shelton, CT. They have been extremely helpful to me over the years.
I just had my battery replaced 2 weeks ago...Ima light came on...went to dealer, they diagnosed it....ordered battery, came in next day. next day i came in, 2 hours later, installed.....not one dime.......Mine is a 2001, with 84,000 miles...AND....This is the 2nd replacement battery in 3 years!!!!!!.....My dealer was awsome!!!!....In Janesville Wi......I dont understand why they are giving you so much hassle......Jim
Encouraging to hear the success stories. I finally secured a copy of the Service Bulletin (3 different Customer Service Reps from American Honda said they would send it to me and failed to do so). After reading it, I'm just blown away that they could misinterpret this so badly. American Honda outright refuses to discuss this over the phone. That's some "service"...
I'm starting with a Demand Letter, then I may try a different dealer before suing. I'm pretty sure it isn't an issue with the dealer, since he's been much more helpful than American Honda.
Thanks to Ian, especially for post #121 (if that isn't stickied somewhere, it should be). His post has helped me sort through what's going on here and hopefully will aid my legal counsel.
Demand letter was sent by my attorney late February, so now I guess it's a waiting game.
Today I did try to bring my Insight to a different dealer, and I have to say I'm completely stunned by the world class service that is Honda. The service rep informed me immediately that the warranty expires at 80k miles. She wouldn't even do a VIN lookup. When I countered that a service bulletin extended it to 150k miles, she claimed that the extension was only to 80k miles, implying that it had originally be less. When I persisted that there was a service bulletin explicitly extending the warranty to 150k miles, she called American Honda in front of me, asked what the warranty is on Honda Insight battery packs, and was told 80k miles by the AMERICAN HONDA CUSTOMER SERVICE. She then got off the phone and gave me a "God has spoken" look and said "Well, the 800 number people say it's 80k miles on the warranty, so that's what it is." She refused to look up the service bulletin.
One thing is for certain, after this is resolved, I won't be buying another Honda.
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