Grinding when down-shifting from 3rd to 2nd

[les]

Anyone know what speed is recommended to down shift from 3rd to 2nd. I test drove an insight and it upshifted great through all gears however it grinds when downshifting from 3rd to second when vehicle speed is over 25km/h and over 1800rpms's. Is this normal? below this it downshifts smoothly. Anything slightly over 1800rpm's and it gets very notchy and 50-150rpm's over that will grind.

It looks like the syncro may be off. Just wondering if that' s the case what the repair costs would be.

The seller says the previous owner complained about this and they changed some components and the new owner's claim they changed the trans but it still makes the same noise. They say it is a common problem with Insights.

Thoughts???
Regards,

Les

[budomove]

search, there about 8 threads i know of on this site on 2nd gear, that is the first synchro to go, mine doesnt grind, but i can feel its worn. search for:rev matching, double clutch, 2nd and you'll know as much as the rest of us. limiting downshifting is another topic that has been covered. I would not buy an insight that grinds, it will cost several thousand minimum if you're not doing the work yourself, and the used transmission you might pull from another insight could be even worse. If you want to pay like 3-4k then have honda do the work. just find another car, and use the search.
frank

[uhtrinity]

Mine does this too. It grinds from 3rd - 2nd pretty much how you describe, and I have to be pretty much stopped to drop to 1st. I don't want to spend the money to fix it, so unless I find a dirt cheap MT I'll deal with it. Mima does help as I can avoid downshifting by using mima to avoid lugging / stalling the engine. For 99% of my driving it isn't an issue.

[rtm242]

$1581.56 for an entire transmission assembly from Majestic (http://www.hondaautomotiveparts.com)

Of course that doesn't include labor...

[Guillermo]

Originally Posted by les

Anyone know what speed is recommended to down shift from 3rd to 2nd.
Les

As long as you down shift into 2nd gear while travelling at less then 110 km/hr the engine won't over-rev and blow up
But to answer your question there is no proper speed at which to downshift from 3rd to 2nd the important factor is rev matching so when the clutch is released in 2nd gear the RPM of the engine is right at or slight above where it needs to be to synchronize the wheel speed to the engine speed. When done properly the synchros are doing very little work and releasing the clutch quickly will feel smooth because the engine will not speed up or slow down during the engagement.
Very few people know how to rev-match and even fewer people know how to heal and toe downshift or double clutch downshift properly.
Heal and toe downshifting greatly reduces wear during gear changes in regular driving conditions and are essential for mastering high performance driving techniques. Most people that drive manual transmission vehicles on the street rely on their synchros too much and release the clutch too slowly when downshifting resulting in premature synchro and clutch wear.

[Guillermo]

Originally Posted by rtm242

$1581.56 for an entire transmission assembly from Majestic (http://www.hondaautomotiveparts.com)

Of course that doesn't include labor...

It's not neccessary to replace the transmission if only the synchros need replacing. But the labor of removing the transmission and opening it up will cost much more then the synchro kit, unless you are handy and can do it yourself.

[Guillermo]

The reason the car responds better to downshifting at very low speeds is because the engine speed difference between gears is similar down there. The reason Insight drivers may experience more synchro issues compared to other cars is because the Insight has very tall gears that are very different from each other so NOT rev- matching causes the synchros to slip for a longer time compared to other vehicles with closer gear ratios.