Another Bad Experience with Hybrid-battery-repair

[ERgirl]

Originally Posted by Hybrid-Battery-Repair

I don't know who you are, so I can't tell you anything specific or trace what is going on. There are three people answering emails, so it would be helpful to know which one(s) she is sending to. We had one employee leave, so if the emails are going to "tim", that would certainly explain things. I can also tell you that the last two weeks have had various people out of the office on vacation, so she may have been getting different people on the phone.

Our policy is to pause warranty clocks whenever a problem is reported and then only resume them after the customer is back up and running. In addition, if a repair should fail a second time, we generally send a replacement battery out so that the customer is less inconvenienced.

Please ask your wife to call the office on Monday and ask for Brian and let him know that I told her to call. I would say to ask for me, but I will be away from the office all week. Despite that, please PM me and let me know if Brian does not resolve the problem to your complete satisfaction. I will be checking PM's every evening.

I tried calling to talk to Brian and was told he was unavailable. I am just wanting to get this issue resolved as this is my only means of transportation and I drive 100 miles round trip to work. I am pretty upset because I origianlly contacted them almost 6 weeks ago and I still do not have this resolved. If anyone has any other suggestions I would love to hear them.

[Hybrid-Battery-Repair]

Originally Posted by ERgirl

I tried calling to talk to Brian and was told he was unavailable. I am just wanting to get this issue resolved as this is my only means of transportation and I drive 100 miles round trip to work. I am pretty upset because I origianlly contacted them almost 6 weeks ago and I still do not have this resolved. If anyone has any other suggestions I would love to hear them.

Between the time I told you to call and when you actually called, Brian had an emergency and had to leave the office. Please call again, ask to speak to his assistant Andrea and give her your information and tell her that I asked to have her contact me with it. I will ensure that this gets resolved ASAP.

[AbCaRed00]

Although personally I have no IMA problem as yet [knock on wood], nor 'irons in the fire' regarding this thread nor the several others like it, squirreled around the IC forum if people care to search, I find that it is very interesting yet strange indeed for an established business having to persist in doing it's customer service maintenance in this fashion.
It is disturbing as an Insight owner and unsettling that so many people have had to resort to this venue to bring forth their issues in recent years.
To the point: When I first considered purchase of my Insight one of the critical deciding factors in ownership, [aside from initially investigating falsely rumored health concerns for the Insight related only to AC power systems], was that the IMA batteries used in the first generation Honda Insight could reliably be obtained through the aftermarket, for a competitive price, in a reasonably timely fashion. So said the information in the vendor advertisement featured.
That factor may well maintain the premium prices often paid for relatively older but sound first generation Honda Insight vehicles. Similar was the notice of 10 year warranty on the IMA batteries that has waned for my vehicle and many will be in a few years without Honda's safety net.
Evidently a major problem exists not only in delivery times, but also quality/durability of repair, [extended warranties aside]. If reading correctly the latter's been rectified by a change in diagnostic procedure and evaluation. Good stuff! However, that change-up in SOP for in depth quality control may further exacerbate the time delays in shipping back to the customer. Coupled with these issues, the business has expanded dramatically due to increased demand, and no doubt the experienced staff spread thin, and regrettably some people may well be over their depth as the ball has been dropped several times from reading heartfelt posts.

I've seen something similar occur to a popular family restaurant I patronized locally that expanded as the second generation matured. The simple diner developed and went through some very hard years of transition during the expansion: they lost many customers as the service, food quality, and sanitation plummeted in spite of newspaper puffery pieces. In that case, an ethnic following and many long time loyal customers largely carried them through. If the tribulations of that family business were borne out in public for all to see, as has been done so here in the virtually captive market of the IC group, it is very difficult to say if that restaurant that is now expanding to the 'third generation' would have survived if given such negative reports in such a persistent manner.

There are slight analogies to the food industry, in as much as batteries are 'consumables' and business practices can be transferable, so I would suggest with all due respect and in good heart, that an 'outsider', a professional temporary business manager be hired to critically investigate the entire process, along the lines of the reality TV program: "Restaurant Impossible". If not familiar with the series, in their tv projects, a hard nosed and critical look at the entire business operation is undertaken, with a view of making substantial and meaningful changes to key areas with particular attention to such as quality control, [which you seem to have addressed]; timeliness of promised delivery; and bottom line customer satisfaction. Fundamentally though and not to be forgotten should be worker satisfaction and maintaining a core of experienced staff, lest they branch out on their own and use the proprietary skills developed over years, to start a competitive well managed enterprise, or worst possible case in dissatisfaction and/or under time pressure ruin the hard won business success thus far.

As Ron has been a font of knowledge as seen in the IC posts, and as I would desire a truly competitive market for potential Honda Insight battery repairs that would preserve the value and utility of our vehicles, I would take this opportunity to wish Ron and his staff well and best success in the future. They should surely know they're well placed in a line of business that will be expanding as time progresses and demand increases. At the same time, I must say that I would sincerely hope that I do not have to rely upon their services. In light of all this information good or bad, I will be driving my first generation Honda Insight in a manner that will not exacerbate over-use of the IMA, and am very thankful now that seasonally cooler conditions will soon prevail in my region. I will consider modifications to the IMA fan as has been done by several veteran Insight drivers as one of the steps towards long battery life and look forwards towards additional alternatives to the current system.
Hope you all have a swell day! ...but not your batteries! Stay cool.
signed:
'Just Another Nobody' LoLz

[Eli]

Like I said, it's being read into too much. All businesses have problems, and those customers with problems end up being the most vocal. What matters in the end is how the problem is handled, and I think Ron has generally proven himself there.

If we started a thread titled "Post your good experiences with Hybrid Battery Repair", how many hundreds, if not thousands of posts would there be in the thread? Contrast to the handfull of people that have posted complaints.

Again I'm not trying to put HBR on a pedistal or downplay the problems anyone has had with them, but I really think this needs perspective.

[Willie Williford]

I'm with ELI on this one. After 19 years as a motorcycle mechanic and then 22 as a Deputy Sheriff the general public were more prone to file an "aw sh_ _" letter vs. an "atta boy." No matter how good you were.
As businesses expand there is an increase in "lack of communictation" and superivison of the employees.
Ron has probably done what he can to cure that scenerio, and he is one of the few CEO's of a business who still tries to communicate to the consumers.
My 2 dollars worth.
Willie

[jcollin10]

Originally Posted by kccode1

I thought about attaching this to the previous thread about Hybrid Battery Repair but then thought it would be more fitting to start another post But you should read the original thread first here

My Experience with Hybrid-battery-repair

Seems things have not gotten better. My wife's 2001 battery was sent in and refurbed by Ron. I received it back in October of last year. My wife told me that the IMA light came on and she contacted Ron about getting it fixed since it is still under warranty. That was almost 4 weeks ago. I just heard from her that she has called them 5 times first telling her a new one is on the way. Now they don't seem to know what the status is. She was given the excuse that her email's were put in spam folder. Now they don't return her emails at all. They don't return phone calls at all and she is stuck without a car that works since the IMA will trip after driving about 10 miles.

The worst part of it all is that I have been deployed with my unit in Afghanistan since March and I am lucky to get to talk with her once a week. This is first chance since the trouble started that I have been able to use a computer.

This seems to be a common issue with Hybrid Battery Repair that has not changed in over a year.

I had my battery repaired 7/10 and I still do not have a good battery. The first repair lasted 6 months. Since January, the battery has been returned three times and it takes 1-3 months to get the battery back. Twice I have been told that the battery was shipped and got lost, (really, Fedex lost a shipment, I find that hard to believe). I have been without a vehilcle for 6 months now. I am seriously thinking about litigation against this company.

[Kurzweil]

I have read about Hybrid Battery Repair's method of restoring an ailing battery. I understand that they (and Honda too, for that matter) replace seriously failing cells with ones that are comparable to the rest of the non-failed cells. That is, they intentionally do not use new cells because this would cause an imbalance in the opposite direction. It is stated to offer an average of five years of additional life vs. seven or slightly more in a "new" battery, assuming that such a thing is still available. I wonder if some of the complaints in this thread could be attributed to the fact that our batteries are now a lot older than they were when the above explanation (assuming that I have it correct) was being written? In other words, do these batteries eventually become somewhat unrepairable because ALL of the cells have aged so much? I also read that cells can last thirty years which would imply that we have many years of expectation for successful repairs.

I appreciate that within a fairly negative thread that much positive comment appears. Even Abcared's analysis had much positive note, if a rather dismal conclusion. Having been a married man in the past, I well know the feeling of busting ones rear end to try and please MANY people and being thought a dismal failure despite the effort. I do not envy Ron's present situation and pray that it quickly eases itself. I doubt not a bit that this is in no way caused by a lack of effort, sincerity, honesty, and competence. Business volume alone can put paid to those attributes. In other words, success can kill. The gist of my post is about the nature of the battery itself, not HBR.

[racer26]

I wonder how much of these complaints surrounds the "repair" service that Ron offers, vs the new BetterBattery.

Since the BetterBattery is composed entirely of new cells put into a reused battery casing, I imagine there would be far fewer problems with these. Perhaps H-B-R should consider only selling these if the QC issues are causing ongoing problems with the "repair"ed batteries. In many cases while something could be repaired, its better to simply replace, simply because the cost of shipping them back and forth repeatedly would very quickly eat up the $600 cost difference, and you get a much better product in the BetterBattery anyway.

[Eli]

Originally Posted by Kurzweil

I have read about Hybrid Battery Repair's method of restoring an ailing battery. I understand that they (and Honda too, for that matter) replace seriously failing cells with ones that are comparable to the rest of the non-failed cells. That is, they intentionally do not use new cells because this would cause an imbalance in the opposite direction. It is stated to offer an average of five years of additional life vs. seven or slightly more in a "new" battery, assuming that such a thing is still available. I wonder if some of the complaints in this thread could be attributed to the fact that our batteries are now a lot older than they were when the above explanation (assuming that I have it correct) was being written? In other words, do these batteries eventually become somewhat unrepairable because ALL of the cells have aged so much? I also read that cells can last thirty years which would imply that we have many years of expectation for successful repairs.

I appreciate that within a fairly negative thread that much positive comment appears. Even Abcared's analysis had much positive note, if a rather dismal conclusion. Having been a married man in the past, I well know the feeling of busting ones rear end to try and please MANY people and being thought a dismal failure despite the effort. I do not envy Ron's present situation and pray that it quickly eases itself. I doubt not a bit that this is in no way caused by a lack of effort, sincerity, honesty, and competence. Business volume alone can put paid to those attributes. In other words, success can kill. The gist of my post is about the nature of the battery itself, not HBR.

Honda doesn't refurbish batteries in the same way that Ron does; they have no interest in taking a pack apart and testing all of the individual subpacks, etc.

We suspect that the "new" batteries Honda has are actually new old stock, and there is anecdotal evidence to support that these new, but older stock batteries aren't lasting as long as they once were.

The theoretical maximum lifespan of a NiMH battery is about 25 years, but that totally ignores real world conditions and the severe disadvantage that you have with so many cells in series. Our cars seem to be quite hard on our batteries overall, with a high depth of discharge(60%) and no balancing circuitry. I think 25 years would be possible with a battery that sees very shallow depth of discharge(5-10%), and a more sophisticated rather than non-existant balancing routine. But yes, Ron has reported that it is somewhat common for 5, 10, 15 and even all of the subpacks to need replacement, especially with P1449-78 errors.

I also agree with racer's sentiment regarding the BetterBattery. Still though, $1000 for a repair is a lot easier for people to swallow than $2000 repair, even if the $2000 repair is obviously the better overall solution. Maybe eventually(with enough volume?) the wholesale price on the BetterBattery will come down to a level where it becomes more worth it to just stuff battery cases than to test subpacks and rebuild the battery in that manner. We can hope.

[racer26]

I bring it up because at my day job, we often get a customer's computer back, and simply replace the hardware rather than spend hours tracking down the problem. Sure, it results in functional hardware being pulled out of service, but labour and shipping is expensive. We don't want to spend hours solving the problem, to send it back to the customer and have it fail again.

I know for me, I have no intention of buying anything but a BetterBattery when my IMA battery gives out.