Latest technology you wish was on your I1

[kaypee171]

I have been thinking about this for a while. I love my I1. I am a little disappointed in the I2, but I understand that the I1 was a car built as a test bed for hybrid technology, while the I2 was buily to make Honda money. Still, there are a few things available now that I wish our 1st gen Insight had. Here are a few and I would love to hear more.

1. Grill shutter. This is one I believe Honda missed the boat on. The Chevy Cruze Eco has one, but it is a technology that was probably possible in the 1970's or earlier. How nice would it be if we didn't have to mess with fudging it together ourselves? Other active aero would be nice as well, perhaps a few flaps that pop out at speed and give a bit more of a boattail effect.

2. Smaller displacement with a turbo. The few who have turbo'd their Insights have reported little fuel economy penalty unless they drive aggressively, and isn't that true of a factory spec Insight as well? If they shrunk the engine as well, the results would be great.

3. Direct injection. This is a no brainer, and seems to be an easier way to do lean burn as well. Combine it with number 2, and we could have likely had more power with half the displacement currently.

4. Diesel. Of course, diesel fuel has 30% more energy per volume (I think that's about right). However, Once you have 2 and 3, the gains are a lot less.

Thoughts?

[Willie Williford]

1. Grill shutters have been used on "semis" for years.
2. A G Insight engine is just about the right size for the weight of the vehicle. (If you want economy and ample HP) It's a HP to weight ratio. The G1 Insight loves a turbo because it is a"long stroke" engine, similar to a semi engine. (Long stroke)
3. By 2015 I predict that all new vehicles will have "direct injection". More efficient but more expensive to build. (1200-1500 psi) When fuel injectors first came out they were single hole type. I checked my 2007 FIT's and they are barely visible 6 hole producing a specific pattern.
4. Diesels won't see much improvement till the price of diesel fuel gets below the price of regular gas. Most places i've seen, diesel is more expensive than premium. (Its a cost per mile thing)
My opinion
Willie

[jeff652]

I'd like to see solar panels on the roof that run the climate control while the car is off so the battery does not cook.

Doesn't the Prius already do this?

[kaypee171]

Originally Posted by Willie Williford

1. Grill shutters have been used on "semis" for years.
2. A G Insight engine is just about the right size for the weight of the vehicle. (If you want economy and ample HP) It's a HP to weight ratio. The G1 Insight loves a turbo because it is a"long stroke" engine, similar to a semi engine. (Long stroke)
3. By 2015 I predict that all new vehicles will have "direct injection". More efficient but more expensive to build. (1200-1500 psi) When fuel injectors first came out they were single hole type. I checked my 2007 FIT's and they are barely visible 6 hole producing a specific pattern.
4. Diesels won't see much improvement till the price of diesel fuel gets below the price of regular gas. Most places i've seen, diesel is more expensive than premium. (Its a cost per mile thing)
My opinion
Willie

1. My point exactly.
2. My point was that turbocharging would allow the same power levels with smaller displacement. Turbo direct injection engine are quite capable of 130-150hp/L, which would be about 500cc just to maintain current power levels.
A turbo doesn't care how long the stroke is. It merely wants exhaust flow to spin the turbo. While the Insight has an undersquare engine, a 81.5mm is not a long stroke except maybe in motorcycles and FORMULA 1.
3. I agree.
4. Yes diesel is more expensive than gasoline. No it's NOT a cost per mile thing. In any vehicle I can think of, the slight extra cost of diesel is more than offset by the added miles per gallon. It might not be enough to justify the added cost of the diesel engine, but it can offset the added cost of the fuel and then some. Plus, the combination of diesel and hybrid technology in an aluminum bodied car would run virtually forever.

[Leeper]

Direct injection - that is inevitable with most all cars
Diesel - that would be great! the efficiency is way beyond gas so is the significant increase in torque. To give an idea of ho much more efficient the new Jaguar XJL gets 40+ mpg out of a huge Sedan! This would also help a bunch with the low end that is using much of our battery power currently.
Turbo - no thanks. This is a detriment to low end which i what is eating our battery power. I don't need gains on the top end of the power curve unless I'm climbing hills, the other times it would only usurp power.

Better batteries, solar panels if they were functional and not just a sales gimmick, mid engine, lowered CG batteries, plug-in capabilities, a system more like the Prius where it runs first on electric then gas, rear disc brakes, a decent sound system/nav system like the Civic Si, LED headlights and running lights, cruise control, iPod connection,

[pascal28]

Some reasons why Diesel engines can be so efficient:

1) Diesel has about 11 to 12% more energy per unit volume than petrol. Current UK fuel prices for diesel are 4 to 5% more expensive than petrol. This means the cost of energy is cheaper with diesel compared to petrol even if a diesel engine had the same efficiency as a petrol engine - which it doesn't see 2) & 3).

2) A diesel engine has no fuel mixed with the air during compression; petrol engine compresses an air fuel mixture. This means that in a diesel engine higher compression ratios are possible without danger of detonation (premature auto ignition of the fuel). Thus a diesel engine can have very high compression ratios (16 to 22+); the Insight has a respectable compression ratio of 10.8 (10.3 for the non-Jap spec CVT's). Thermal efficiency of both petrol (Otto) & Diesel engines are functions of compression ratio / pressure ratio - the efficiency increases as compression ratio increases. This is the main reason why the efficiency of diesel engines can be significantly higher than petrol engines. This also allows diesel engines to have high degree of turbocharging without worrying about detonation thus allowing diesel engine to be downsized.

3) A petrol engine has a throttle (butterfly valve) that at low power conditions closes causing increased parasitic losses; diesel engines don't. This means that at part power conditions diesel engines have a further efficiency advantage compared to petrol engines.

The combination of points 1 to 3 result in diesel engines having significantly higher efficiencies: 20 to 40%. 84mpg (UK) would become 101 to 118mpg before hypermiling/MIMA(IMAC&C)...

[jonnyvtec]

Good post Pascal

I often have the pleasure of driving the new Jaguar XJ and the diesel is a superb all round package. The 5.0 V8 SuperSport I drove on Tuesday is something else though Im a design engineer at Jaguar LandRover.

I think direct injection would have really helped widen the lean burn window aswell, Audi have great sucess using a similar method for stratified injection on their TFSI engines.

Drive by wire would be another opportunity as throttle demands from the driver could be met by additional electric boost and not more engine power. With the mechanical link you dont have that flexiblity to hold the engine in its efficient load sites. The CRZ does this and its much better for it.

HCCI when it comes online is ideal for a hybrid with a similar power demand strategy as you can make more of the engine being lightly loaded when you have an EV buffer.

Inline heat exchanger on the AC suction and pressure lines would also bump efficiency to cool the cabin for less work done on the auxillery belt.... that or a heat pump system.

Hydraulic tappets wouldn't have gone a miss either...!

BMW Mini rear Z axle aswell please!

[kaypee171]

Originally Posted by Leeper

Direct injection - that is inevitable with most all cars
Diesel - that would be great! the efficiency is way beyond gas so is the significant increase in torque. To give an idea of ho much more efficient the new Jaguar XJL gets 40+ mpg out of a huge Sedan! This would also help a bunch with the low end that is using much of our battery power currently.
Turbo - no thanks. This is a detriment to low end which i what is eating our battery power. I don't need gains on the top end of the power curve unless I'm climbing hills, the other times it would only usurp power.

Better batteries, solar panels if they were functional and not just a sales gimmick, mid engine, lowered CG batteries, plug-in capabilities, a system more like the Prius where it runs first on electric then gas, rear disc brakes, a decent sound system/nav system like the Civic Si, LED headlights and running lights, cruise control, iPod connection,

A turbo is only as good as it's design. A smaller turbo spools up quickly but mostly produces heat at the top end. Both of these would be good for the Insight, as DIY boosted Insights have been reported to warm up more quickly. An example is the Chevy Cruze Eco. The base Cruze is an NA 1.8L and the Eco is a Turbo direct injected 1.4L that is universally accepted as a better engine due to more low end torque. And diesels are turbos. Actually, if they wanted to put 1/2 of a Cruze Eco engine in it (torquey 138hp divided by 2), that would be good.

I like the solar, but take it a step farther. Solar paint is in the near future. Obviously, that is a better option than a roof panel.

I'm not into a Prius-like system. The Prius setup is a lot heavier than the Insight's, and low weight is one of the things that make the I1 great.

Oh, and this: Green Car Congress: TIGERS: Exhaust Gas to Electricity for Reductions in Fuel Consumption

[bluesunbeam]

Does anyone know what the mpg figures were for the Insight that had the Audi A2 diesel engine fitted ?
Bearing in mind that the new blue motion Polo is claiming 93mpg for the combined cycle and weighs 440 lbs more than the Insight what would the Insight get if this diesel unit was fitted and you lost all the weight from the IMA system and just ran it as a diesel? I assume the huge torque of the diesel would make the IMA redundant ? The mpg figures would be pretty amazing , though you would lose much of the pleasure of Insight driving .
Whatever happens power unit wise we will always have the edge on other cars because it will be an awfully long time before any car maker produces another chassis as light and slippery as our Insights , and as soon as someone comes up with a workable conversion package for the new ultra-efficient diesel units our Insights will be untouchable for fuel economy again .
Apologies to the EV folk out there but i think diesel conversions are the way to go for useable everyday transport .
Come on all you brainy people and get designing and number crunching .

[Eli]

Originally Posted by kaypee171

Oh, and this: Green Car Congress: TIGERS: Exhaust Gas to Electricity for Reductions in Fuel Consumption

That's awesome! I want one.