Noob here with silly questions

[DimensionDude]

Hi all,

I'm looking at a 2000 with manual transmission and high mileage (just over 500,000 miles).

The seller is willing to let me have an extended test drive (keep it overnight).

How should I drive it and what should I look for?

Initial impressions are good...all accessories work, IMA battery charges to full and gives assist on acceleration...car looks really good...what else is there?

I've read a bit on the forum that the manual transmission could be the weak link. What exactly goes wrong and are there any outward symptoms?

Sorry if this irks some of the regulars but I could spend hours on the forum reading and not get all the insight (sorry, no pun intended) that I need.

Thanks in advance,

Kent

[jimrm]

Just make some downshifts to test the synchronizers. Mostly 2nd and 1st gear synchros fail. If the price is right I wouldn't let bad synchros be a deal breaker though. Check the tires. They should be Bridgestone Potenzas RE92. If the tires are wrong you won't get good mileage.

[DimensionDude]

Thanks, jimrm

I did look at the tires and noted that they had decent tread, but I don't remember if they were the correct type. That's something I'll look for.

I did have a short test drive and the transmission shifted fine on upshifts and downshifts. The clutch seemed a bit odd in that there was quite a bit of pedal travel before disengagement. Also, the engine would rev a bit when disengaging the clutch for upshifts. Does this indicate a problem or is it just a lack of style on my part?

Of course, I'll find out more during my extended testing.

Kent

[Eli]

This must be the one that was on Craigslist with the replaced engine. Almost thought about calling them just to ask what the deal was.

I was tempted to make it Insight #4, but the replacement engine soured it for me. I want all original if I'm going to bother with high mileage vehicles, though I know that's illogical.

IIRC it had a recent battey which is a good thing. Overall, I say if you want an Insight go for it. It was a pretty good deal overall if it's the same one. It's hard to lose with a sub-3k Insight.

[DimensionDude]

Hi Eli,

It is on craigslist, but in Fort Smith, Arkansas.

The seller claims that the IMA motor and battery are approximately one year old, it seemed to perform ok during my short test drive.

My commute is short, about 6 miles round trip so I'm not looking to be a hypermiler. But, the Insight is appealing and would fit the bill as a get-around-town car moreso than my Land Rover Discovery.

At any rate, the extended test on Monday will surely lead me to a definitive "yes" or "no."

[jimrm]

The clutch is hydraulic actuated, so you may be low on fluid. Would need to bleed the slave cylinder if master cylinder is empty. The symptom would be excessive free travel in the clutch. There should be very little free travel in the clutch pedal. Don't know why the engine would rev when you shift.

[Eli]

Hmm. I would get that clarified. There's a big difference between the "motor" and the "engine" being recently replaced. IMA motor failures are extremely rare. Then again, so are engine failures.. that's why I was curious as to what happened.

Just based on the fact that you're looking at a 500k+ mile Insight, you're either a tinkerer, insane, or both. And I mean that in a good way. Most people thought I was nuts for buying Insight #2 at 440k miles, but I wouldn't have it any other way. They're amazing cars.

And you're not a hypermiler.. yet. Sitting down into the Insight is like sitting down at a MPG arcade game. First, you'll get 55MPG. Then you'll get 65MPG. Then you'll say, "Hmm.. I bet I can beat my high score." and get 70MPG. Soon after, you'll find yourself pushing the envelope any time you can, resulting in 80MPG tanks. At that point, you're officially a hypermiler, unbeknownst to you.

[Eli]

Originally Posted by jimrm

The clutch is hydraulic actuated, so you may be low on fluid. Would need to bleed the slave cylinder if master cylinder is empty. The symptom would be excessive free travel in the clutch. There should be very little free travel in the clutch pedal. Don't know why the engine would rev when you shift.

Checking the fluid level would be good, but the Insight has extremely varied clutch engagement points from car to car, which has been pointed out quite a few times on the forums.

I think it can be adjusted though.

You may want to ask if the clutch was replaced when the engine or IMA motor work was done. The clutch in the Insight should last at least 250k miles if you drive it properly, because of IMA torque.

[DimensionDude]

Definitely a tinkerer, and probably insane.

High mileage is of course a consideration, but the real yardstick is proper service.

For example, I have a 96 Chevrolet Corsica that belonged to a friend, it wasn't serviced in a timely manner so at 125,000 miles it's pretty much only good for salvage. I tinkered with it a bit and kept it running for 2 years but the damage had already been done. Probably the main crank bearings as it has low oil pressure at idle when warm, and the transmission feels like it has something floating around in it trying to jam between the gears. My friend gave it to me when the cylinder head started leaking coolant outside the head where it collected in one of the spark plug wells and shorted out one plug.

Hence the search for another vehicle. I've been looking at the local classified ads, craigslist, and autotrader.com. What I've found mostly is that the price of used vehicles has really gone through the roof. If I'm going to pay that much for a car, might as well get one that I really like.

Anyway, I'm reading and gathering as much information as I can about the Insight (in general) to be well prepared to make a sensible decision once I've examined it carefully.

Kent

[Eli]

That's very true, though the Corsica had a foot in the grave when it rolled off the production line. Good maintenance goes a long way, but it won't stop the inevitable problems associated with poor engineering.

The Insight, overall, is extremely well engineered. The engine is bulletproof. The transmission is the one area they flubbed up in, as their focus on weight reduction shortened its useful life.

Just as an FYI, it's not the synchronizers that go out in the transmission. It's an engineering flaw with the clocking tabs. The synchronizers seem fairly beefy and should last the life of the vehicle. Upshifts are never a problem, but when the clocking tabs get worn on the downshift, you'll get the grinding.

The other area of transmission concern is the input shaft bearing. Listen for a crunching or whirring sound in neutral with the clutch engaged. That's not this particular transmissions fault, it's Honda's fault - they're notorious for input shaft bearing problems in their manual transmission vehicles.. going back 35 years. *shakes finger at Honda*.