Top reasons you don't like about a 1st Gen Insight

[UK_MJN]

Hi.

I'm a little over 1.90 m tall (6'3") and the cabin is indeed spacious. Honda could have made the car a little smaller and got away with it. It's just a pity that the steering wheel isn't adjustable - I'd like to be able to see the rev counter without ducking my head!

I like the 'jacked-up' rear end though - the product of proper low-drag aerodynamic thinking and not the work of stylists (most of whom seem to be using the same software at the moment, or just copying each other!)

[eq1]

Originally Posted by UK_MJN

... I like the 'jacked-up' rear end though - the product of proper low-drag aerodynamic thinking...

Are you certain of that - that the jacked-up rear is for aerodynamics? I was thinking it might be for ride comfort: with the car loaded, the stance flattens-out, yet since we're supposed to be running low rolling resistance, hard tires, the springs (and other things) are designed to soften the ride... I.e. the springs are weak in the rear to soften the ride, so the ride height needs to be jacked up...

[UK_MJN]

Yes, I am pretty certain of that. If Honda's engineers went after ride comfort or suspension travel then I have Dutch nationality!

The I1 has a Kammheck ('Kamm') tail, and is designed to minimise the drag at speed by bringing together the airflow after it has passed over the top, sides and bottom of the car, and hence create a smaller effective 'hole' in the air, and less energy absorbing turbulence. The car's CDA is 0.46 (i.e. drag coefficient times frontal area) which is very low, so the amount of energy required to sustain a constant speed is correspondingly reduced. This works with lean burn for full benefit.

The Kamm tail was the result of the discovery that you could simulate a long, pointed tail (like you'd see on an 'plane) by truncating it, without much loss in efficiency.

If you look at the car, you'll see that efforts have been made to:
- attach the airflow along the sides (see the low pressure area behind the front wheels, using the Bernoulli principle)
- sweep the side airflows inwards (smaller rear track than front, narrowing shape above the spats)
- sweep the top airflow downwards (carefully designed roofline and rear glass shape)
- sweep the flow under the car upwards (undertray rises and the under bumper area is shaped like a simple version of an F1 car's 'diffuser')

There are other cars that look very similar (the Citroen SM and Alfa-Romeo TZ spring to mind) - look for the same features on these cars.

[AbCaRed00]

Great write up ^^^^^
I think I saw a video that highlights the aerodynamic design with some wind tunnel footage and discussion; if recalling correctly, they basically designed the air flow around a shape of two people sitting in the seat and sculptured the air flow of the car around them. That work yielded the lowest drag of any vehicle up up until the 2012 Prius, which only now just matches the Cd of 0.25 possessed by the Insight.
The IC Encylopedia also has an Aerodynamics section where the above is mentioned.
It's been noted with Mike's D's rear height level testing on the Insight that there is a point where extra rear ride height starts to [impede airflow] lower mpg.

[samwichse]

I think he meant the rear suspension sits high when no one's in the car because it has such soft springs in back.

[eq1]

I don't want to get the thread off topic so maybe I'll post a new one about this. I'm basically questioning whether the ride height rake - that makes the car look slightly jacked up, was designed for aerodynamics. I think maybe the term "jacked-up" is getting a couple interpretations here - because I wouldn't question whether the rear end itself was designed for aerodynamics, cuz of course it was...

[WRobRich]

I really don't like the overly-tall reverse gear. No one can use that much speed in reverse, but doubled power would be very welcome backing up a steep narrow driveway. Second gear is also very tall. A closer-ratio six-speed Insight would be great. There's zero lumbar support in the seatbacks. I think the seat backs were designed for smaller people than my 6'2". As was the hatchback latch loop--had to train myself to always duck. There is unpredictability in the HVAC system controls that the owner's manual doesn't cover. I'd like the gas fill to be left side. The spatz fasteners can be very frustrating since you must get down to eye-level to operate them, and have an oh-so-20th century straight-slot screwdriver engagement that cannot be operated by feel. The fasteners are never "tight" so the spatz can sag. But... I love the quirky style, the seat-of-the-pants ride, quick steering, great brakes, minimalist close-quarters cabin, passerby attention, quiet engine, great heat and cooling, spatz, mileage. Did I say style??? I often gaze at the car just to appreciate how it looks.

[Kevin Dougherty]

Originally Posted by WRobRich

I really don't like the overly-tall reverse gear. No one can use that much speed in reverse, but doubled power would be very welcome backing up a steep narrow driveway. Second gear is also very tall. A closer-ratio six-speed Insight would be great. There's zero lumbar support in the seatbacks. I think the seat backs were designed for smaller people than my 6'2". As was the hatchback latch loop--had to train myself to always duck. There is unpredictability in the HVAC system controls that the owner's manual doesn't cover. I'd like the gas fill to be left side. The spatz fasteners can be very frustrating since you must get down to eye-level to operate them, and have an oh-so-20th century straight-slot screwdriver engagement that cannot be operated by feel. The fasteners are never "tight" so the spatz can sag. But... I love the quirky style, the seat-of-the-pants ride, quick steering, great brakes, minimalist close-quarters cabin, passerby attention, quiet engine, great heat and cooling, spatz, mileage. Did I say style??? I often gaze at the car just to appreciate how it looks.

An extra lumbar support can be found on line and the seats can elevated with spacers under the rear bolts. Lots here 'bout dat.

Im 6' and never had a problem with the hatch loop. It's a nice anchor spot for the hatch tie down when carrying oversized cargo.

The "Tinnerman nuts" on my skirts were anchored years ago with hot melt glue. Problem fixed. Secure the "screws" with an 'O' ring so they don't get lost...last one I bought was > $15

I need more info on the HVAC issues???

[Eli]

I'm not sure what you mean by reverse being too tall. It's really not.

3.230 isn't tall. First is 3.461.

The jump from 3.461 to 1.750 in 2nd is a little odd though. I suspect this is why assist comes on so strong in 2nd gear.

[IamIan]

My 2 bits:

#1> They should have included a OEM plug in option, with IMA battery balancing.
#2> They should have included a larger OEM IMA battery... ~5kwh.
#3> They should have sized the IMA motor to about ~20 kw peak.
#4> They should have the ICE run 90+% of the time in LB... including idle.
#5> They should have included waste heat energy recovery.
#6> They should have made the seats tandem for better CdA.
#7> They should have made the exterior photovoltaic.
#8> They should have used linear generators for shock absorbers.
#9> They should have user electronic variable tinting windows.
#10> They should have made them with 100% RE.

Fortunately I can do nearly all of the above aftermarket ... eventually... except 6&10.

Fortunately sense they didn't do all of the above I don't have to drive some other inferior vehicle in the mean time , while I save up for the whole package OEM... and driving other inferior vehicles would have cost me more money ... thus it would have taken me longer than driving it as is to save up and tweak designs.

So while 1-10 would have been nice ... it is also nice they didn't.

Originally Posted by TRI

Owing a sportscar, I don't have a problem with the sporty suspension and stiff shocks. The steering is very direct and precise.

+1

Originally Posted by gilbertguy

I would say it has a very "stick and rudder" feel to it. In otherwords you are part of the machine and feel every little bit of feedback from the machine. (for better or worse)

+1

Originally Posted by Eli

They're feedback mechanisms for me. I like being part of my machines. If I wanted a Cadillac, I'd buy one.

+1

Originally Posted by racer26

If I wanted a couch on wheels, I'd buy one.

+1