New Owner saying Hi, also has a couple questions

[bigjim56]

Hello everyone, I've been reading the posts on this forum and they are very educational for those of us that have this unique vehicle and are looking for long term fuel savings and proper vehicle maintenance and upkeep.

I recently purchased a 2001 Insight/manual trans. w/85K miles and my first question deals with the IMA battery warranty. I got all of the prior paperwork on vehicle warranty work and the IMA battery was replaced at 70K miles. I have already searched all of the battery warranty threads and I'm still confused.

Does the warranty last until 150K miles on the vehicle, or is it expiring this year with the ten year mark? It was replaced at the 70K mark in 7/2007, is it good 10 years from that date or 150K?

There is no problem with the battery currently, I was a bit scared when it went to the halfway mark right after purchasing, but it has since went back to the full mark and is still there. This car takes some getting used to...I used to put manuals in neutral and coast downhills, now it looks like that is regeneration time for this car.

Also, for the BB owners...what makes this a better battery? I'm not being sarcastic, but my knowledge is limited and I want to know the ins and outs in case I have to someday purchase a new IMA battery. I always thought Honda had the upper hand in equipment manufacturing. If not, sure would be glad to see American competition step in and one-up 'em. I assume the BB is American made.

Thanks for any and all responses beforehand, I'm sure I'll have many more questions in the future, this is a very interesting sight and I'm glad to have become a member.

Bigjim56

[RedJellyBean]

Hi, welcome to the forum! I'm new too, so take what I'm about to say with a grain of salt.
To the best of my understanding, regarding the batteries; the Better Battery (TM) (R) (C) (SM) (PhD) has all-new cells, manufactured recently. That's one huge advantage over a Honda pack; apparently Honda's replacement batteries are old NiMH cells that have been sitting a while and do not have the power they did when they were first manufactured 5-10 years ago. The cells also have a higher Ah rating, making the Insight perform better-than-new, if all other specs are up to snuff.

[bigjim56]

Thanks RedJellyBean, the battery I've got currently, (replaced @ 7/07) only has 15K miles on it in 4years...so that's averages to 3.75K/yr...which is very low usage in my book. I will put many more miles of usage on this vehicle, 54 miles/day round trip to work.

I kinda had another scare today, went all the way down to 4 bars after a long uphill, but had recovered by the time I got home to the full mark.

I'm fairly handy with tools/mechanics of vehicles so I will read up on the replacement side for the future...

bigjim56

[Willie Williford]

Get a 12 pack, sit down and READ READ and READ more here at ICN and your knowledge about the INSIGHT will increase. You will more than likely find the solution to your problem before it happens.
Sometimes better than U tube.
HTH
Willie

[bigjim56]

Thanks Willie, I plan on doing just that. Luckily at my job, I sit behind a computer most of the day, so I will gain much there also...

Any idea of the warranty situation on my IMA battery? Is it warrantied up to the 150K mile mark (@85K now), or is it expired due to the cars 10 year mark this year...(2001 Insight)...

Bigjim56

[gilbertguy]

Yes, only good for 10 years. Need to find out your In-Service date on your car, that will determine how much time you have left assuming you haven't gone over the 150K. For your car I believe it is 157K due to a court case but the 10 years will get you way before your milage.

[aisbell]

The IMA battery pack is warrantied for 10 years since the date of original sale or 150,000 miles, whichever comes first. A successful class action suit increased the warranty distance for some Insight model years to 157,500 to account for odometer errors. The Service Bulletins that cover these and other Insight issues are included in the download of manuals and other documents.

An IMA battery that Honda replaced under warranty is covered under warranty only until the 10th anniversary of the original sales date or 150,000 (or 157,500) miles. So the warranty clock is not reset when a IMA battery is replaced under warranty. However, an IMA battery replaced outside of the warranty has its own much shorter warranty. I don't know the length of this warranty or whether an IMA battery replaced under warranty would be covered by this shorter warranty or the original warranty, whichever is in effect longer.

[bigjim56]

Thanks guys, did researching of all the papers handed down w/car sale and it appears the 7500 mile service was performed Sept. 14, 2001 in Claremont CA., so it appears the time limit has been reached already...

I live in St. Louis...how about them Cards!!!...

Guess my next alternative is to research the battery replacement alternatives, grid charger idea etc. I just did a 150 mile drive yesterday and it performed flawlessly. Having just been replaced at 70K, it's a fairly softly used battery (3.75K/year the last 4 years). It will get a constant and consistant use from me.

I like the idea of grid charging...while I'm at work, I can grid charge it for 8 hrs... Does this level out ALL the cells, thus allowing for a stronger battery response since a cell is only as strong as its weakest cell? What if the battery is already peak charged as is the case now?

Told you I was full of questions...

bigjim56

[aisbell]

Originally Posted by bigjim56

Having just been replaced at 70K, it's a fairly softly used battery (3.75K/year the last 4 years).

So few miles driven the past 4 years has probably resulted in the cells in your battery pack being quite unbalanced with respect to their individual charge levels (the cells develop different self-discharge rates). I drove about the same number of miles each year which undoubtedly contributed to my battery pack being replaced twice under warranty before my car had been driven 22,000 miles. Grid charging would rebalance the cells and delay battery pack problems.

Originally Posted by bigjim56

I like the idea of grid charging...while I'm at work, I can grid charge it for 8 hrs... Does this level out ALL the cells, thus allowing for a stronger battery response since a cell is only as strong as its weakest cell? What if the battery is already peak charged as is the case now?

Grid charging to maintain battery pack balance need not be done frequently if you drive regularly. In fact, too many charge-discharge cycles can shorten a battery pack's life. Also, 8 hours might be insufficient to rebalance all cells (depending on how unbalanced your pack is). So grid charging overnight when temperatures are cooler is probably a better idea.

If you start grid charging when the charge level of your battery pack is high, less grid charging time is necessary to balance all cells.

[Eli]

The car only charges the pack to 80% of capacity and discharges to 20% of capacity. Because of this, it is incapable of balancing the cells.

The idea behind grid charging is to balance the pack. It does this by gently charging the whole pack - If a cell becomes full, it simple burns the input as heat, allowing any straggling cells to catch up.

There can be too much of a good thing. Unless your pack is already week, it's not advisable to charge every day as it will prematurely wear the pack. Grid charging should be seen as maintenance. It is theorized, but not yet known for sure, that a semi regular grid charge(1mo, 2mo, 4mo, 6mo?) will help keep a pack healthy.

Unfortunately "gently used" in the context of an Insight pack isn't necessarily a good thing. Sitting in and of itself isn't harmful to a NiMH cell, but because of the car's simplistic battery management, it can cause problems due to differing self discharge rates of the cells, which the car is then not able to correct. Only time will tell how your pack will perform.