2000-04 vs. 2005-06 Model Comparrisons

[jime]

I'm starting this thread because I would like to get some enlightened opinion/knowledge on this subject, in one place. At this stage in the G1 lifespan, we can only buy used cars. I have heard some anecdotal information that the early cars, through 2004, will deliver better fuel economy. The early cars certainly allow the Calpod mod and the later ones don't. I purchased a 2006 because I wanted a low mileage car and I wanted to have Honda responsible for the first battery replacement. The strategy worked, but did I shoot myself in the foot?

Would the enlightened among us please provide some input on the subject comparrison. Are there natural fuel economy advantages to the early cars? Why? Do the late cars present a lot of problems for the modder? Why? Are there steps which make the 2005-06 equivalent to the early cars? What are they?

I searched and could not find a direct thread on the subject. If one exists, please point me I have seen a fair amount of discussion spread around in different places, but it doesn't pop up on search.

Thanks as always.

[aisbell]

Originally Posted by jime

I have heard some anecdotal information that the early cars, through 2004, will deliver better fuel economy.

Some feel that firmware changes in the BCM and/or MCM designed to increase the IMA battery life expectancy have decreased fuel efficiency. Any Insight whose IMA battery has been replaced under warranty has also had this firmware updated to the current version at the time.

The assist and regen behavior changed when the BCM and/or MCM firmware were updated in my 2000 Insight resulting in the average indicated IMA battery charge level being lower. Originally, the indicated charge level seemed to be determined mostly by the terrain, driving style, etc. Now, the indicated charge level is actively managed with assist more aggressive at high charge levels and regen more aggressive at low charge levels. I haven't noticed any change in fuel efficiency, but those who hyper-mile might be more sensitive to these changes.

Originally Posted by jime

The early cars certainly allow the Calpod mod and the later ones don't.

Why do you say this? I'm not aware of any changes in the IMA system that would make the Calpod mod ineffective on later Insights.

Originally Posted by jime

I purchased a 2006 because I wanted a low mileage car and I wanted to have Honda responsible for the first battery replacement. The strategy worked, but did I shoot myself in the foot?

This only disadvantage for later Insights AFAIK is their shorter IMA battery warranty period. If your IMA battery remains healthy until 2016 or 150,000 miles, you didn't shoot yourself in the foot. In fact, with MIMA, the ODBIIC&C gauge, and judicious grid charging, you have a better opportunity to manage your battery than did those of us who have owned Insights since the early years.

[Eli]

Yep, the clutch switch mod should work with any Insight with a clutch.

[jime]

Originally Posted by Eli

Yep, the clutch switch mod should work with any Insight with a clutch.

I'm going to give it a try. I have the word from another seemingly well qualified Gen1 friend that it won't work, but I sure hope you guys are right.

So is the bottom line, there is no disadvantage to the 2006 MT, assuming updated and upgraded 2000-04 models?

[Eli]

Yep, that's my understanding.

Why wouldn't it work? The clutch switch just tells the computers whether the clutch is engaged or not. If you add another switch in parallel, you can make the car think the clutch is disengaged, even though it is not. This will prevent it from using assist/regen, even though you'll merrily continue rolling down the road since the clutch is, in fact, engaged.

[jime]

Originally Posted by Eli

Yep, that's my understanding.

Why wouldn't it work? The clutch switch just tells the computers whether the clutch is engaged or not. If you add another switch in parallel, you can make the car think the clutch is disengaged, even though it is not. This will prevent it from using assist/regen, even though you'll merrily continue rolling down the road since the clutch is, in fact, engaged.

I may have been mistaken. I talk to lots of folks and sometimes I get things confused. In particular, I get confused about hacks for Calpods and FAS switches. I have not yet tried either, but will certainly be trying a Calpods since it is relatively easy. I'll get back to you all on that one. I'm busy at the moment with my grid charger installation.

Shouldn't have brought that one up, since it wasn't the object of the thread

[Willie Williford]

Invite your well qualified Gen 1 friend to this site. It is a wealth of knowledge.

Willie

[racer26]

I remember reading somewhere that 05-06 MT insights the calpod switch doesnt work. I can't remember much more than that though.

[Eli]

Originally Posted by racer26

I remember reading somewhere that 05-06 MT insights the calpod switch doesnt work. I can't remember much more than that though.

Hmmm. That would be news to me. I guess it's certainly possible.

I wonder why it wouldn't work? They made it so the car will assist/regen even if the clutch is disengaged? lol

[phuber]

Originally Posted by Eli

Hmmm. That would be news to me. I guess it's certainly possible.

I wonder why it wouldn't work? They made it so the car will assist/regen even if the clutch is disengaged? lol

If Honda inverted the logic and made it so the clutch opened the circuit instead of closing then an open switch in parallel won't disable regen. Not sure what the reason for doing this is, maybe they're afraid Calpodding will wear out the battery faster. -pat