Elect./Gas Hybrid + HHO...

[bigjim56]

Anyone here tried this? The electrical dissasocialization of the water molecule to its elemental form results in 2 parts Hydrogen and 1 part water (HHO). The Hydrogen molecule is a benneficial, VERY POWERFUL element in a fuel system (water on the moon?)...it raises the octane level in regular gas to the premium levels!

The problem arises with eliminating the (O)xygen from the equation. The oxygen sensors need to be "fooled"" into believing that the proper level is there and hence the engine can be run with a lower fuel to air ratio. Ebay sells fuel adjusters, but engines can suffer serious damage if run too thin on fuel...it seems as though some of the fuel is used as "coolant"...WTF?
Big Oil's reach runs deep!

I've tried HHO on a Acura Integra (HHOforums.com), but problems arose when I tried to strengthen the concentration of the electrolite to a level that resulted in overflowwing of the gaseous bubbling mixture to the intake. KI (DI + Potassium Hydroxide) is very caustic to aluminum, so ALL experiments ceased at this point. However, a lower level of electrolite would've resulted in less violent boiling and no carryover. A seperate bubbling /cooling/cleansing reservoir is reccomended in this scenario.

There are Hydrogen Hybrids in existence already...packaging is a problem...a HUGE problem, so it's better that Hydrogen is made at the point of use...a disposable blow out/relief valve (plastic bag) is sufficient for on site use to prevent explosion, and catostrophic result to the costly Hydrogen cell.

Hydrogen cells are easily accessable...ebay/self const./et. it is somewhat a commonsense alternative to dinofuels since we are already reverting motion energy to explosive energy in our hybrids. What's wrong with that energy going to a Hydrogen Cell?

Seeing as though Hydrogen is a viable point in achieving high mpg's free from dino fuel, it seems as though this is a commen sense pathway to freedom from the Irobs/Big Oil...

Interested in your thoughts...

bigjim56

[aisbell]

More energy is required to dissociate water into hydrogen and oxygen gases than would be released when this hydrogen and oxygen gas is burned. So any claim that burning hydrogen that's generated in a device in your car would make the car more energy-efficient isn't valid and violates the first and second laws of thermodynamics which have never been violated.

[jonnyvtec]

+1

I remember attending a IMechE 'Hybrid engine' Lecture. You can imagine my horror when I realised it was a HHO system bodged into a car with wild claims!

[Eli]

Yep.. Energy isn't free, and so far no HHO system has violated the 1st law of thermodynamics.

Stanley Meyers was a fraud.

The fact that running an engine lean will cause problems has nothing to do with big oil and everything to do with the fact that a lean charge burns much hotter than a rich one. Our engines are able to use a controlled form of lean burn under very specific circumstances. If you tried to run any engine on any fuel with a lean mixture at full throttle, you would have the same outcome - a broken engine. Burned valves, melted pistons.. There's nothing big oil can do about that, it's just basic physics.

[Aaron Cake]

HHO doesn't work.

Anyone who proves it does work can make a cool million dollars:
The one million dollar HHO challenge

Here's a long topic on my forum discussing it, with links to scientific studies, examples of scammers and delusion, etc.:

Aaron's Homepage Forum - Hydrogen Fuel for Cars

[racer26]

Ah, good old science.

You cannot violate the laws of conservation of energy.

[boogetyboogety]

Hmmmmm... normally, we get very few trolls here in this forum... how did you get through?

[Eli]

Now now, be nice. I don't think Jim is a troll, just slightly misinformed.

[racer26]

even if such devices COULD achieve 100% efficiency, which they cant, the amount of energy expended to facilitate the electrolysis process has to come from somewhere.

[Eli]

Originally Posted by racer26

even if such devices COULD achieve 100% efficiency, which they cant, the amount of energy expended to facilitate the electrolysis process has to come from somewhere.

Yep, and that energy ultimately comes from the very fuel you're trying to save.

When you add up all the losses, it's pretty silly to think you could ever come out ahead.

75% loss from the ICE itself, 20% loss from the alternator.. that's not even including the loss from the HHO cell itself.

Now, if you could run the electrolysis cell from an external grid charged battery, or an exhaust driven turbine generator.. you might be able to save a little bit of money on gasoline overall...but it's still a hard battle to win.