I've been gone for a long time, this is a strange world now

[knipdlo]

Hi all,

I owned a Mk1 Insight around 2007, sold it to finance a DeLorean, have had a mess load of cars since then, but recently found a 2000 Insight for sale and decided that prices are reasonable enough to justify buying another.

The Insight world has become very strange and scary to me since I was last on this forum- can anyone tell me if anything has changed in regards to buying and looking at an insight- with the added age of the cars? Looking at a 2000 MT, 205k mi.

Finally- can anyone advise me on what a bunch of these new things are I'm reading about?

I remember MIMA from back then, what is OBDIIC&C? Is there a website for Betterbattery? Who sells the grid charger? Any other developments I would want to be aware of?

Thanks!
Tim

[Eli]

OBDIIC&C Gauge

http://99mpg.com/projectcars/gridcharger/

Hybrid-Battery.com

[knipdlo]

Originally Posted by Eli

OBDIIC&C Gauge

http://99mpg.com/projectcars/gridcharger/

Hybrid-Battery.com

Aaannnnd that's exactly what I was looking for!

Thanks!

[jime]

I too have noticed a change of subject matter and attitudes in the 3 years that I have owned my 2006 MT. To save you a lot of reading through the suggested threads, I have tried to summarize.

-The cars are getting older and there is concern of future Honda support.
-The battery issues may become a big drag unless Gen1 owners can get on top of the situation.
-Spares may dry up.
-Against this, there is a cadre of Gen1 lovers who hate the prospect of losing their little gems, and that includes me.

The push for a better grid charger is motivated by a strong desire to understand battery life threats, and to mitigate those threats as best as possible. M. Dabrowski's new chargers are clearly driven by this motivation. Currently, he is delivering the chargers, but there is yet much to be learned by the best way to use the chargers. Over time, the Gen1 community will begin to get more clarity and the charger may require some use variation or evern reprograming, both of which are in reach.

The better battery is an approach which seeks to replace the original battery with components which are new and of slightly greater capacity. New is good because no original design cell have been built recently. The only thing happening, apparently, is repair of original batteries - even by Honda. Something NEW has strong appeal.

The OBDIIc&c is an attempt, in it's early phases, to design and build a Gen1 specific gauge which will do a better job of monitoring the IMA system. The gauges are currently available either in kit form or completed from Eli(screenname). Other gauges such as the Scangauge don't do a very good job in helping the owner understand what is happening with his IMA system.

I think I got this all correct, but if not I'm sure some of the more knowledgable members will comment.

[Eli]

Originally Posted by jime

I think I got this all correct, but if not I'm sure some of the more knowledgable members will comment.

Great summary.

[Need4Speed]

I am not sure what was meant by "-Spares may dry up", but one of my concerns would be the tires no longer being available. Other brands just don't get the same MPG.

[jime]

Originally Posted by Need4Speed

I am not sure what was meant by "-Spares may dry up", but one of my concerns would be the tires no longer being available. Other brands just don't get the same MPG.

For sure

I think it would be wise for anyone who is down halfway of their tread to start looking.

There are limited alternatives and they aren't going to be as good, fuel economy wise.

and, OBTW keep the removed tires. They might get you out of a pinch.

[knipdlo]

jime, I think your assessment was spot on. I guess in more reading and exploring you're right that the longevity of the vehicle isn't in question, but the support and repair is.. A lot of this is obviously generated by the fact that it's not a parts bin car- which is a strength and weakness. It seems like a lot of people are still very dedicated and that's an awesome thing.

IMO the Mk1 Insight is still the ONLY hybrid worth it's salt, and I'd really like to see them stick it out as long as possible.

I had some serious drive time in the CR-Z before it was publically released and it was TERRIBLE, but I guess once you've been spoiled by the Insight it's tough to consider anything else.

The Mk1 Insight makes a very short list of cars that I believe should start being re-made as new just because they're so good.

Anyway, thank you for your concise summary and hopefully I can get in touch with this guy to check this car out sooner than later.

[racer26]

I don't anticipate the G1 insight going away anytime soon.

The owners community here is already quite strong, and between us, we have the collective knowledge to fix any part of the car.

For the time being the BetterBattery has solved the batteries issue, if with the (hopefully temporary) caveat of needing to deal with H-B-R's admittedly lackluster customer service. I'm sure Ron and his team will improve, as the masses start to have battery issues in the next 4-5 years.

The biggest question mark to me, is how long are we going to be able to get Potenza RE92s in the P165/65R14 size, with their low-weight, low-rolling-resistance construction. Heh, I called a tire shop here yesterday, and the guy on the other end of the phone couldn't figure out how a 165/65R14 would be better for FE than a 175/65R14. Perhaps we should get on the phone with Bridgestone, and find out if they have any plans to discontinue the tire in the near future. If they don't, I suppose we as a community can deal with these periodic shortages with minimal issue.

I don't think brakes will become a big issue. The IMA regen means that we wear them far slower than normal, and if getting them becomes a big issue, I suspect we'll be able to figure out a way to rig up Civic brakes in their place, sure at a bit of a weight penalty, but it would be better than taking our insights off the road.

Most of the remaining parts should be able to be scavenged from the insights that will continue to be wrecked in collisions over time.

As far as other developments goes, I have two projects going into the new year, that I hope to get done. They will likely be merged into one device, a fuel economy data-logger with respect to distance travelled, with rear-window display, and an elegant FAS setup, which will cause the ECM to actually command a normal AS on demand, instead of forcing engine shutdown by cutting spark or fuel as current methods do. This will mean that all the oil pressure and battery idiot lights won't illuminate during a FAS.

The log would allow you to correlate your fuel consumption with the elevation changes in your route, and would allow us to characterize how much fuel it takes to climb 1000' by means of a 10% grade, vs climbing 1000' in elevation on a 1% grade for 10x as long. I'm sure there's a breakeven point, but nobody knows where it is. I'm aiming to change that.

[UK_MJN]

Originally Posted by racer26

I have two projects going into the new year, that I hope to get done. They will likely be merged into one device, a fuel economy data-logger with respect to distance travelled, with rear-window display, and an elegant FAS setup

Great - I for one will be watching for news with interest.

I don't think anyone needs to get too depressed about the tyre situation though. In the UK we don't get the original Bridgestones yet we're enjoying 70-90mpg (UK gallon) with ease using Michelin Energy etc, and Pirelli have a new Cinturato (CINTURATO P1) in the right size - new low RR tyres are being developed as we speak. Actually I've got a couple of bog-standard cheapo Firestones on the back axle and still seen 75.6 MPG over 250 miles, two up. I think tyre manufacturers should get pretty close to the original Bridgestones in due course - there's nothing patented or magic about them.