Should I buy a BetterBattery?

[Lafter]

When I purchased my Insight I was told the battery had been replaced a few years ago but they could not find any paper work.

My battery seems to work fine and does not throw any codes but I hear lots of good things about the BetterBattery & would like to try one out.

So my questions are

Does my used battery have any resale value to offset the purchase of a BetterBattery?

Is there an easy test I can do to let me know how good my used battery is?

What can I expect from a new battery?

Am I being an obsessive moron that should leave good enough alone and forget all about the BetterBattery?

[Eli]

Hmm. The BetterBattery is a great product, but I'm not sure it makes much sense to buy one unless your current battery is having problems.

I think you could get $800-1000 for your used battery though, especially if you can somehow prove that it's only a few years old.

Another advantage to this approach is that you could continue driving your car with your current battery while you wait for the BetterBattery to come in.

There is no comprehensive test unfortunately. With an OBDIIC&C Gauge, you could attempt to measure the amp hour capacity. May be difficult without MIMA or at least the calpod switch though, and they're all currently sold out. Subjective tests include discharging/charging the battery as fast as you can and noting when/if it does negative/positive recalibrations and at what level of SoC on the battery meter.

If your current battery is in decent health, I wouldn't expect anything earth shattering from the BetterBattery. It definitely performs better, but what that means to you is a big questionmark, and depends on how you use the battery overall...

[gilbertguy]

Get a grid charger and keep the battery you have healthy for many more years to come. Mike in NY has sold all of his currently built chargers but if he can get 30 more people that want them then he said he may make more of them.
Using the Universal grid charger (look about half way down the page for Mike's post)

http://99mpg.com/Projectcars/buildingahybridcar/

[Lafter]

Originally Posted by gilbertguy

Get a grid charger and keep the battery you have healthy for many more years to come. Mike in NY has sold all of his currently built chargers but if he can get 30 more people that want them then he said he may make more of them.
Using the Universal grid charger (look about half way down the page for Mike's post)

http://99mpg.com/Projectcars/buildingahybridcar/

I thought about that .. but the charger seems kinda expensive to me ($650-$700) .. it does not seem like a good investment when a new battery is only $2k

[Eli]

Originally Posted by Lafter

I thought about that .. but the charger seems kinda expensive to me ($650-$700) .. it does not seem like a good investment when a new battery is only $2k

That isn't the right way to look at it. The grid charger is preventative maintenance. Everyone with an Insight needs a grid charger, IMO. If your battery is already weak or throwing codes, it's too late - you're simply keeping your battery on life support.

The real idea behind the grid charger is to maintain your batteries' health, to help keep it balanced and performing at it's peak.

[Lafter]

Originally Posted by Eli

That isn't the right way to look at it. The grid charger is preventative maintenance. Everyone with an Insight needs a grid charger, IMO. If your battery is already weak or throwing codes, it's too late - you're simply keeping your battery on life support.

The real idea behind the grid charger is to maintain your batteries' health, to help keep it balanced and performing at it's peak.

lol ... I am disappointed in you Eli.

You break every other subject down into stats ... but on this subject all I get is a simple "That isn't the right way to look at it."

I was really hoping you would break it down more than that for us average folk .. for example .. in order to break even on my $700 investment .. how much extra life would the grid charger have to give me... stuff like that.

It just seems to me (and I have done no calculations) that its not worth the extra maintenance cost in the long run.

[Eli]

I did actually start to, but the truth is that.. we don't know. We don't know how long the BetterBattery will last, and we don't know how long the grid charger has the potential to extend the life of the battery, and what the appropriate time frame for maintenance grid charges is(1mo, 2mo, 4mo, 6mo?).

There are so many variables that we may never know for sure, but as time goes on we will get a better idea of these things.

I do understand your point of view... for the grid charger to be worth it, it would essentially have to make the battery last twice as long. Will it? I don't know, but I'm hopeful that it will.

We know that grid charges will extend the life of a weak battery for 1-2+ years, so it's not an unreasonable assumption that grid charging would extend the life of a healthy pack much more than that. Too many variables to say for sure. Some people get 10-11 years out of their batteries, some are hard pressed to get 5...

Based on the specifications of the BetterBattery and how it performs, we're hoping it closes that gap, so everyone can enjoy 8-12 years out of a battery regardless of grid charging or not. With grid charging, will 15+ years be possible? We won't know for another 14 years.... lol.

Edit: Something else to consider is that there is a very wide performance range between "brand new battery" and "IMA light". The car's systems are designed to use the battery until it is extremely degraded. Grid charges should prolong the time the battery spends closer to "brand new" status, improving performance all around. That's probably worth something.

I've been testing this weak pack for some time now, and it's a real drag. It really puts a damper on the car's performance. I miss the ~12kW bursts that the BetterBattery gives, and being able to command a solid 10kW of assist for minutes at a time with MIMA, rather than getting a split second of 10kW if I'm lucky, then being limited to 3-6kW...

[pjaymac]

Originally Posted by Eli

I did actually start to, but the truth is that.. we don't know. We don't know how long the BetterBattery will last, and we don't know how long the grid charger has the potential to extend the life of the battery, and what the appropriate time frame for maintenance grid charges is(1mo, 2mo, 4mo, 6mo?).

There are so many variables that we may never know for sure, but as time goes on we will get a better idea of these things.

I do understand your point of view... for the grid charger to be worth it, it would essentially have to make the battery last twice as long. Will it? I don't know, but I'm hopeful that it will.

We know that grid charges will extend the life of a weak battery for 1-2+ years, so it's not an unreasonable assumption that grid charging would extend the life of a healthy pack much more than that. Too many variables to say for sure. Some people get 10-11 years out of their batteries, some are hard pressed to get 5...

Based on the specifications of the BetterBattery and how it performs, we're hoping it closes that gap, so everyone can enjoy 8-12 years out of a battery regardless of grid charging or not. With grid charging, will 15+ years be possible? We won't know for another 14 years.... lol.

Eli, regarding your remark about everyone who has an Insight should have a grid charger: I live in an apartment complex with no charging capabilities. Would I be at a disadvantage because I couldn't use a grid charger?

[Eli]

Originally Posted by pjaymac

Eli, regarding your remark about everyone who has an Insight should have a grid charager: I live in an apartment complex with no charging capabilities. Would I be at a disadvantage because I couldn't use a grid charger?

I suppose on some level, yes. Performing a grid charge on a known healthy battery is preventative maintenance, not unlike rotating your tires or flushing your brake/coolant systems. Many apartment complexes don't allow things like that either.

The difference is that there are service centers that will perform these tasks for you, while there are currently no service centers that will grid charge your battery. Perhaps that will change in the coming years as hybrids become more and more mainstream.

But like I said, some people are able to get 10 years out of a battery, while others struggle to get 3-5. If you're one of the people that can get 10, perhaps a grid charger isn't necessarily worth it. If you're closer to the lower end of the spectrum, then it probably is.

It's complicated, lots of variables.. Saying that everyone needs a grid charger is a blanket statement, I'll admit.. but it's probably more right than wrong - the thought is positive overall.

[pjaymac]

Originally Posted by Eli

I suppose on some level, yes. Performing a grid charge on a known healthy battery is preventative maintenance, not unlike rotating your tires or flushing your brake/coolant systems. Many apartment complexes don't allow things like that either.

The difference is that there are service centers that will perform these tasks for you, while there are currently no service centers that will grid charge your battery. Perhaps that will change in the coming years as hybrids become more and more mainstream.

But like I said, some people are able to get 10 years out of a battery, while others struggle to get 3-5. If you're one of the people that can get 10, perhaps a grid charger isn't necessarily worth it. If you're closer to the lower end of the spectrum, then it probably is.

It's complicated, lots of variables.. Saying that everyone needs a grid charger is a blanket statement, I'll admit.. but it's probably more right than wrong - the thought is positive overall.

Interesting. Thanks for the perspective. So grid chargers would work with Prius batteries, too, right?

That would be great if service stations could perform grid charging. How long does it take to to a full grid charge on an Insight's or a Prius's battery?