Extended parking anxiety

[dirty hippie]

I can't seem to find a consensus on the longest amount of time one can park the gen 1 without negative consequences. My driving habit is such that I don't drive everyday, and on the days I work, I prefer riding my bike (about 10 miles each way) and I do my errands on bike too on my days off. I rarely leave my car park for more than a week. But since Jan 3, I've left my car parked until today, a total of 12 days--my longest time. I was gonna drive it Monday to meet someone, but I got paranoid and drove the car for about 20 miles today. Totally defeats the purpose of saving gas. I mean I know I didn't use that much gas on this little run, but I hate driving for no good reason. Is this the bane of owning a hybrid? Anyway, if I recall, the car was parked with a full or near-full SoC, and upon starting the car today the SoC was pretty much the same. I understand this reading doesn't say anything about battery health. I really can't afford a $500 grid charger. What are my options when letting the car sit--and what is the maximum "sit time" one can allow the gen 1?

[retepsnikrep]

I get twitchy after about 7-10 days or so. I grid charge my wifes car fitted with BB after we come back from holidays of over that length. It's less of an issue with new cells but much more of an issue with ten year old packs IMHO. A single long break of > 10-14 days from driving can tip an old pack over the edge into the IMA error zone pretty quickly IMO.

[Varak]

You might check to see if there are anyone in your area that has one of Peter's grid chargers. You could buy the harness and install that and then 'rent a charge' with someone's grid charger when needed.

[Eli]

The current recommendation is to grid charge if the car sits for more than a few days.

[aisbell]

Originally Posted by dirty hippie

I can't seem to find a consensus on the longest amount of time one can park the gen 1 without negative consequences.

That's because no one can say for certain due to so many variables. NiMH battery cells naturally self-discharge (maybe continuously because self-discharge is current leakage through the barrier separating the anode and cathode). The self-discharge rate increases with increasing temperature, so an Insight in a warmer climate will suffer faster self-discharge rates. But self-discharge by itself causes no cell damage; different cells self-discharging at different rates results in cell charge level imbalance which "damages" the entire battery pack.

I wonder whether the occurrence of a negative recalibration might be the signal we need to wait for to balance the battery pack with a grid charger. If that signals only a severe imbalance without any cell having been damaged by a voltage reversal, then wouldn't a balancing grid charge be sufficient to fix the imbalance problem?

Originally Posted by dirty hippie

My driving habit is such that I don't drive everyday, and on the days I work, I prefer riding my bike (about 10 miles each way) and I do my errands on bike too on my days off. I rarely leave my car park for more than a week.

That sounds a lot like my driving pattern during which 2 battery packs failed before my Insight had been driven 22,000 miles. Since regularly grid charging shortly after my third battery was installed, the performance of my battery has been much better than the previous two.

So regular driving and/or balance charging seem to be banes of owning a Honda hybrid.

[Jivko57]

You can make your own simple charger using Mike's schematics for probably less than a $100 or buy one already made from the community for a little more than that

I got one a couple of years ago, it only needed a box and installing . The installation was comparatively easy save for the positive terminal . Also fiddling around 164v DC is potentially lethal. I tried to measure the voltage of the pack afterwards but used a wrong setting on the meter....I vaporized one of the probes in a split second...

But overall that charger is priceless. it keeps my failing battery alive and performing. (I was going to use the phrase "on life support" but it is not accurate. Imagine a retired sports player that is able to play again professionally - could be just for 10 min at a time , but he is still in the game)

[timny1984]

I'm not sure i completely agree with sitting more then a week will greatly harm the battery. I'm sure it might have some negative affect on the battery, but I feel since the CVT doesn't seem to abuse the batteries nearly as much as the MT, the CVT can sit for much longer periods of time. Last winter i basically let my CVT sit the whole time maybe drove or started it 2-4 times tops, 180k miles at that time with the original battery and it probably sat for 8-10 weeks minimum in one period. After spring I drove another 9k miles until august when i bought a MT with a bad battery. I took my old CVT battery and plopped it in the MT and have been driving that ever since without any problems. No recalls of any kind ever, and only recently have i been grid charging.

Just my two cents.


Tim

[BrianZ54]

Questions about the Grid Charger:

If you were to install one in a car that still had 10 months of battery warranty left could the dealership say it was a modification which voided warranty?

Is there anyone in the midwest (Michigan or a close neighbor) who would be willing to install one? I would certainly pay for someone's time in that case. I'm starting to think my 9+ year old pack is going to make the 11/23/12 date, when I become responsible for it. At this point I'm thinking I should wait until then to make (a minor?) modification.

Thanks,
Brian

[retepsnikrep]

I think when you leave it for a really extended period > 4months then it's probably better as all the cells will have self discharged LOL. So they aren't out of balance just all flat. The issues comes when only some have self discharged to a significant degree. There is probably a humped graph which would apply, so that as period/time between driving increases imbalance increases but once past a critical mid point when imbalance is worst imbalance reduces again as all cells lose any useful charge. Cold weather reduces self discharge rate significantly so that is probably also a factor as they won't go out of balance anywhere near as quick when cold.

Yes a dealership could claim the mod voided the warranty if they knew about it

[racer26]

In my opinion: the cars should not be left for longer than about 10-14 days without being driven.

Course, barring vacations and the like, I see little reason to OWN a car if you're going 14 days without driving it on a regular basis. If you're driving that little, then the cost of fuel isn't really your concern. You could be driving a Hummer for all it matters, because the cost of insurance and repairs (repairs are generally caused by time, and not miles) becomes such a large component of the total cost of keeping your vehicle driveable, that the cost of fuel is functionally irrelevant.

No car should be left undriven for extended periods of time, though traditional internal combustion powered vehicles are MORE tolerant to it than hybrids. Brake rotors rust, alternators seize up, and things just generally don't work as well when they're allowed extended periods of non-operational time.

A number of you called out Eli for not riding a bicycle the 2 miles from his home to his work. His response, which I echoed, was that he owns a car so he doesn't HAVE to walk or ride a bike.

What it comes down to is why you own an insight to begin with. Do you own your insight to be 'green'? Or do you own your insight because it is the most economical means of getting you through the thousands of miles you drive in a year. I know for me, its the latter. I don't care that I'm being greener. Sure, its nice, but that's not why I drive it. I drive it, because driving an insight saves me on the order of $4000/year over my old Acura 1.6EL (Canadian model only upscale version of the Civic). That's huge.