I'm planning to buy some Amsoil 5w-30 for use in my 130,000 mile insight with the "growling" engine that sounds like it's on its last legs. I would also use the oil in my newer 40,000 mile insight. Any objections to this plan? The 5w-30 is 18% more viscous than 5w-20 (I still think 20 sounds too thin).
The oil says it can be run 25,000 miles though I would still stick to 10,000 changes.
.
__________________
OWN: 61mpg Insight (greenercars.org score: 57)
both blue and silver,
and a 45mpg BeetleTDI (score: 47).
It won't really hurt anything other than your fuel economy.
AMSOil 0W-20 is 47.3cSt @ 40C and 8.7cSt @ 100C.
AMSOil 5W-30 is 60.3cSt @ 40C and 10.5cSt @ 100C.
That's a pretty big difference. AMSOil 5W-30 is a pretty light 30 weight at 10.5cSt. Most other 30 weight oils will be ~11cSt at operating temperature.
Just for reference:
AMSOil 5W-20 is 50.5cSt @ 40C and 8.8cSt @ 100C.
Mobil1 0W-20 is 44.8cSt @ 40C and 8.7cSt @ 100C
Mobil1 0W-30 is 62.9cSt @ 40C and 10.9cSt @ 100C.
Don't put too much emphasis on kinematic viscosity though. They're all going to be roughly the same for an oil of the same viscosity. There are far more important specifications, like viscosity index and TBN.
I prefer RLI BioSyn 0W-20. Many would argue it is, bar none, the best oil on the market. Some would argue that a better cost/performance ratio could be met with a more regular oil. However, the best part about RLI BioSyn is that it is made from renewable resources - vegetable oil!
It comes in at 44cSt @ 40C and 8.6cSt @ 100C.
Do some research, it's truly an amazing oil. About the same price as AMSOil and much better performance in pretty much every application.
The 5W-20 offers 90% of the performance for a more reasonable price; it comes in at 45cSt @ 40C and 8.8cSt @ 100C.
__________________
Bumblebee Batteries, LLC - Helping your hybrid get from point A to point Bee!
A more narrow Viscosity Index is generally better as there are fewer viscosity additives and more oil. Also BioSyn is not a synthetic. It's a natural/conventional oil and provides less protection.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eli
AMSOil 5W-20 is 50.5cSt @ 40C and 8.8cSt @ 100C.
AMSOil 5W-30 is 60.3cSt @ 40C and 10.5cSt @ 100C.
After the engine is hot, which is only ~5 minutes, the difference is minimal. I would say that Amsoil's 5W-20 is thick for its rating. The SAE20 range is 5.6 to 9.2 and their oil is near the top end.
I don't know.
Maybe I should stick with the 5W-20. I just want to extend the engine life as long as possible, and I thought a thicker oil might help.
As for cost:
I am getting 25% off Amsoil's price.
__________________
OWN: 61mpg Insight (greenercars.org score: 57)
both blue and silver,
and a 45mpg BeetleTDI (score: 47).
My Honda service manual specifies 0W-20 from below -20F to above 120F, with no recommendation other than 0-20. I don't think I'm smarter than the guys who designed the engine, so I'm using 0-20. These engines last 400,000-500-000 miles on 0-20, so I don't see any point risking this by using something different, which will also reduce my fuel mileage. 0-20 for me.
My Honda service manual specifies 0W-20 from below -20F to above 120F, with no recommendation other than 0-20. I don't think I'm smarter than the guys who designed the engine, so I'm using 0-20. These engines last 400,000-500-000 miles on 0-20, so I don't see any point risking this by using something different, which will also reduce my fuel mileage. 0-20 for me.
Sam
Ah. Yet another oil thread...
Not everyone is as smart as you (or I), and if I live to be a thousand years old, I will never understand why people try to bypass all the R&D Honda has put into the development of our wonderful little engine, and introduce anything but the oil the owner's manual calls for.
But the world is full of idiots who smoke, marry poorly, can't handle money, believe in superstition instead of science, and think they're oil experts. There's no sense in arguing with them, or trying to bring any sense into their empty heads. We will know them, and avoid them, by the blue smoke coming from their exhaust as they go by...
__________________
Driving on down the road in my 2001 CVT, going "Boogety Boogety" ...and until avatars are provided, my car looks just like the original silver Insight on the header, above... =)
I prefer RLI BioSyn 0W-20. Many would argue it is, bar none, the best oil on the market. Some would argue that a better cost/performance ratio could be met with a more regular oil. However, the best part about RLI BioSyn is that it is made from renewable resources - vegetable oil!
It comes in at 44cSt @ 40C and 8.6cSt @ 100C.
Do some research, it's truly an amazing oil. About the same price as AMSOil and much better performance in pretty much every application.
I did look into oil specs when deciding on the oil I would use in my car and the RLI BioSynXtra 0W-20 was my choice also. I like that it keeps with the Insight "green" theme and that I could get it in a 5 gallon pail I can eventually re-use instead of more, smaller plastic bottles (even though they can be recycled). It would be helpful if RLI would provide an unbiased comparison of embodied energy in their motor oils vs synthetic vs conventional oils to see how they stack up.
0W-20 and the factory oil change interval is what I am sticking with.
__________________
Silver 2006 MT #531
132K miles
Genesis One GCO1 Charger v2.4, OBDIIC&C v0.04
I will never understand why people try to bypass all the R&D Honda has put into the development of our wonderful little engine, ... But the world is full of idiots who smoke, marry poorly, can't handle money
Thanks for the insult ("idiots"). Things change over time. For example VW-germany is now telling me to switch from 5w-40 to 5w-30 because they claim it provides better protection than the manual's original recommendation. So your "follow the manual" advice would actually be bad advice for my vw
Honda, Toyota, dodge, etc have all made mistakes before with bad engines or bad oil recommendations. Another company that I used to trust, Nissan, built an electric car without a cooling system and now the batteries are overheating. GM made a design error where oil got trapped in the plastic engine shroud and then caught on fire. Engineers are not perfect; they are human. And as an engineer myself (not an "idiot") I can tell you that compromises are made. For example: In a recent design I was told to downgrade the motor on an airplane flap, because the one I had picked was too heavy. The replacement motor is lighter but will die 2-3 years earlier.
That's how engineering actually works (tradeoffs between longevity and limitations). Finally: It makes sense to run 0W-20 if you live in a cold climate where you need thin oil, but not in sunny Arizona or California where it never goes to freezing. My honda mechanic doesn't even use 0W-20. Only 5W-20 and 5w-30 for their bulk fills. And that's fine because the "w" means winter: Something we don't see here.
The 5w-20 has fewer VI modifiers and more actual oil, so it provides better protection than 0w-20. Plus there's almost no difference between Amsoil's 0W-20 and 5W-20 (it's 47.3 versus 50 cSt at 40degrees.) My engine is old and literally sounds like it will die in another 50,000 miles since the previous owner ran it dry of oil. I thought a thicker oil might be good.
MANUAL: "A 5W-20 oil may be used."
__________________
OWN: 61mpg Insight (greenercars.org score: 57)
both blue and silver,
and a 45mpg BeetleTDI (score: 47).
It won't really hurt anything other than your fuel economy.
AMSOil 0W-20 is 47.3cSt @ 40C and 8.7cSt @ 100C.
AMSOil 5W-30 is 60.3cSt @ 40C and 10.5cSt @ 100C.
That's a pretty big difference. AMSOil 5W-30 is a pretty light 30 weight at 10.5cSt. Most other 30 weight oils will be ~11cSt at operating temperature.
Just for reference:
AMSOil 5W-20 is 50.5cSt @ 40C and 8.8cSt @ 100C.
Mobil1 0W-20 is 44.8cSt @ 40C and 8.7cSt @ 100C
Mobil1 0W-30 is 62.9cSt @ 40C and 10.9cSt @ 100C.
Don't put too much emphasis on kinematic viscosity though. They're all going to be roughly the same for an oil of the same viscosity. There are far more important specifications, like viscosity index and TBN.
I prefer RLI BioSyn 0W-20. Many would argue it is, bar none, the best oil on the market. Some would argue that a better cost/performance ratio could be met with a more regular oil. However, the best part about RLI BioSyn is that it is made from renewable resources - vegetable oil!
It comes in at 44cSt @ 40C and 8.6cSt @ 100C.
Do some research, it's truly an amazing oil. About the same price as AMSOil and much better performance in pretty much every application.
The 5W-20 offers 90% of the performance for a more reasonable price; it comes in at 45cSt @ 40C and 8.8cSt @ 100C.
Thanks for the link Eli! I have them bookmarked and will be ordering some for my Spring/Summer oil change.
__________________
Silver '00 MT
90.2 LMPG
80+ psi in RE92's for the past 2 years without incident
Calpod switch
Warm air mod
Grill block
EPS fuse removed
FAS/fuel injector interrupt circuit
grid charger
OBDII C&C gauge
....Honda, Toyota, dodge, etc have all made mistakes before with bad engines or bad oil recommendations. Another company that I used to trust, Nissan, built an electric car without a cooling system and now the batteries are overheating.....
Actually, you make a very good point on several fronts !!
The first "fix" that many on the forum have had to deal with, is the Insight rear coil springs!! "Heaven's, how could Honda have made such a blunder in their spring choice" would describe my surprise in how soft the rear end is. Honda got the rear spring rate of the Honda Fit right on, but the Insight is something else!
Secondly, look at how many items are being created or sold to help Honda engineer a better battery pack solution for the car. Eli sells new batteries, Mike with dumb chargers, smart chargers and full battery cyclers and so on.
Thirdly, for me the Honda engineers choice of foam hardness in the drivers seat is just awful. I put up with it, but I can't figure out how they could get it so darn hard.
From an oil tribology perspective, the only need for a higher viscosity comes when there is not enough oil pressure between the bearing surfaces. As long as enough oil pressure is maintained to prevent bearings from touching, you are fine.
5w30 will work with this engine as I've found bearing tolerances tighter on engines that run this viscosity and I'm certain there are plenty of oil shops and even Honda dealerships that have pumped it in from their bulk drums without even thinking about it and we haven't heard of any failure reports.
Another note: no matter what the viscosity you choose, it will have be thicker/higher viscosity while the engine is cold than when it is hot so if it sounds like garbage when cold and sounds the same when hot, viscosity won't fix the noise.
"My engine is old and literally sounds like it will die in another 50,000 miles since the previous owner ran it dry of oil."
My opinion is that if what you are hearing is friction, you're nearly finished with this engine already. If it sounds terrible now, whatever is failing will likely fail anyway. If it were my car I'd run an oil analysis on the current fill to see if there is excessive wear and what metals are present that might track down the specific culprit whether it's in the valvetrain, bearings, rings, etc. ...or go through the inevitable teardown or prepare for replacement.
In a nutshell, buy the viscosity that makes you happy... Good luck!
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Amsoil 5W-30 in my insight?
