Mobil 1 0W-20 not as good as 5W-20

[theaveng]

0W-20 has a TBN of 8.8
5W-20 has a TBN of 12.4 (the extended drain version)

The other thing I noticed: The "high mileage" Mobil 1 oils are a thicker viscosity than the standard or extended-drain Mobil 1 oil. I just discovered this a few minutes ago while researching, and decided to share with those who are interested.

TBN == total base number and is a measure of how many antiwear additives the oil contains.

[jime]

Originally Posted by theaveng

0W-20 has a TBN of 8.8
5W-20 has a TBN of 12.4 (the extended drain version)

The other thing I noticed: The "high mileage" Mobil 1 oils are a thicker viscosity than the standard or extended-drain Mobil 1 oil. I just discovered this a few minutes ago while researching, and decided to share with those who are interested.

TBN == total base number and is a measure of how many antiwear additives the oil contains.

So, what does your research say is good enough in terms of TBN?

[theaveng]

Originally Posted by jime

So, what does your research say is good enough in terms of TBN?

Depends how you drive. If you drive hard the TBN number will drop to zero rapidly (and then you have acid in your oil eating-away at the metal parts). But if you drive a constant 60mph for thousands of miles, the TBN will barely drop at all.

The low TBN 0w-20 is recommended for only 6000 or 7500 miles. The high TBN 5w-20 is recommended for 15,000 miles.

[RedJellyBean]

Is this the Mobil 1 AFE 0w20 or another kind?
I ran the AFE until my current change, when I put in Meijer store brand 5w20 conventional cheap-sh-t oil that cost about $2.50 per quart. The whole change cost less than a quart of Mobil 1 oil. Fuel economy is unaffected. Lifter tick is actually much quieter now too. I think I'll stick to this oil for a while!

[biododge1]

well, dont get me wrong, but sometimes I think we overthink some of this stuff. I have a buddy that gets all uptite about oil specs, and the like and badgers me constantly about it. While i understand certain engines require certain specs ( cg, cj, cj+4 etc). I think overall the most important thing is regular oil changes-plain and simple. Ive ran 0-20, synthetic, non systh, 5-20,10-30, mobil, generic, honda, you name it. But I allways change it at 5K.
My point being that, I dont beleive "we" need to worry so much as "we" think we need to about oil additives and the like. I use my car/truck regularly in some of the worst conditions for oil (and engine life) and still pull 200k on up for engines with little issue in terms of "being worn out".
Im not saying its wrong to be picky, and to each his own on what they put in their car-but sometimes it just seems a tad overkill to me

[jime]

Originally Posted by theaveng

Depends how you drive. If you drive hard the TBN number will drop to zero rapidly (and then you have direct metal-to-metal contact). But if you drive a constant 60mph for thousands of miles, the TBN will barely drop at all.

The low TBN 0w-20 is recommended for only 6000 or 7500 miles. The high TBN 5w-20 is recommended for 15,000 miles.

Well, Honda recommends in the owners manual for the Insight that the oil be changed at 7500 miles, and that 0W20 synthetic be used. I seriously doubt that Honda would take a risk by "underrating" the required oil quality. It would be to their strong disadvantage to do so. There are several examples of these engines lasting more than 400,000 miles with, I assume, the recommended oil. Worn out crank bearings are virtually unknown far as I can tell.

But your point about the extended change interval with the 5w20 is appreciated and well taken. I just don't want to give up the slightly better fuel economy with the recommended oil

I'm sticking with Honda's recommendation.

[freezin4]

This may be a good review since oil change threads pop up so often on the forum. Per owner's manual:

"A very low-viscosity, fuel-efficient OW-20 oil is preferred engine lubricant for your Insight."

"An oil with a viscosity of 0W-20 is
preferred for optimum fuel economy
and year-round protection in your
Honda. A 5W-20 or 5W-30 oil may be
used if OW-20 is not available."

and...

"Synthetic Oil
You may use a synthetic motor oil if
it meets the same requirements as
the specified oil: energy conserving,
a service classification of SJ, and a
weight of either OW-20, 5W-20, or
5W-30. When using synthetic oil, you
must follow the oil and filter change
intervals given in the maintenance
schedule."

The original Honda 0W20 (or OW20 as Honda manual states) was a synthetic-blend which was later changed to full synthetic.

I'll continue to use this viscosity in whatever brand I can find on sale. Recently bought 5 quarts of Peak brand 0w20 with a (cheap) filter for $20 at Pep-Boys, but I digress.

[theaveng]

Recent oil analyses of Honda 0w-20 and 5w-20 (from bobistheoilguy forum) show it is not a good oil, because it wears out as early as 5000 miles.

Most xW-20 oils become very thin as they become diluted with fuel... leaning out to almost xW-10 oil. I've decided to go with the 5w-30 or 0w-30 for extra protection and to last the full 7500 miles.

Plus it is the recommended oil for Europe and Japan (I've been told; I'm trying to verify it). In fact I might just use the same oil by VW TDI uses (Castrol SLX) since it was tested and approved by Volkswagen to pass their very hard test known as VW505.

[Eli]

TBN isn't the be-all, end-all oil specification. However, it's certainly important, especially if you want extended drains.

Originally Posted by theaveng

TBN == total base number and is a measure of how many antiwear additives the oil contains.

That is incorrect. TBN is a measure of the acid fighting ability of the oil. Having a depleted TBN doesn't mean "metal to metal contact", it means the oil can no longer neutralize acids - hence the name, Total Base Number. Acids floating around in your oil are obviously undesirable, as they eat metal without direct friction.

[theaveng]

Yeah I mixed-up the TBN with the Moly number (antiwear additive). In any case you don't want a low TBN in a brand-new oil. The 0W-20 is low and might not even make it 7500 miles.