Honda convert insight to 4-seat version

[theaveng]

One reason the insight sold so poorly was because Americans don't like two-seat cars. After the car flopped, Honda should have modified it to have no rear cargo hole, rear seats for children, and still kept the 60mpg 3-cylinder engine. Something like this:

[MN Driver]

There is no real space in the back for rear seating of the Insight, any rear passenger would be grinding their head against glass. The only way around that is to have rear facing seats but if you do that it moves the seat too far back in the car to have knee room in the back. Seats just simply wouldn't fit.

The passenger doors also don't go back far enough to get a passenger in that gap easily. Making any body modifications to the car to make things fit would add weight to the chassis, not to mention the seat and frame rail weight, and be an aerodynamic loss. Also keep in mind that the GVWR of the car wouldn't allow four people reasonably in the car even before you've added the extra weight of the seats and modifications to make this work. You also need a place for the spare tire and IMA equipment to go and those take up a ton of space. I wouldn't want to give up the utility of a hatchback too and I don't know many who would. There is a surprising amount of stuff that I've been able to fit in my Insight and having rear seats would diminish that ability.

[theaveng]

Originally Posted by MN Driver

any rear passenger would be grinding their head against glass. ..... You also need a place for the spare tire

I said "for kids". And certainly no worse than the CRZ's rear seats shown in post 1. (I guess in your opinion Honda should not have rear sets in the CRZ.) Many econocars don't carry spare tires anymore. Example: Chevy CruzeEco has no spare (just a bottle of fix-a-flat) so they can reduce weight/increase City MPG. If I were Honda I would adopt the same plan for the 4-seat 1G insight.

Also I'm an engineer. I don't believe in "cannot do"..... only problems looking for solutions. I look at the space wasted by the cargo hole and see space that could be used for a battery box instead (thus freeing-up space for children's seats where the batt used to be... as pictured above). As for hauling, the CRZ's rear seats fold flat. If that's still not good enough, you could choose to buy the two-seat version instead. (Like you did.)

Finally: An extra 100 pounds for seats 3 and 4 don't impact aerodynamics or highway MPG. To me it seems an obvious way to fix a car that was a flop in the marketplace. The buyers want 4 seats in their car? Fine. Add them and eliminate the obstacle that stops them from buying the 1G insight. (As Honda did with the CRZ.)

[Bugone]

To be honest, I think they could of fitted two seats and kept the IMA.

If they moved the batteries backwards into space that is already there, you could easily made it a 2+2. The only compromise would be a smaller boot.

Peugeot managed to squeeze 4 seats into a cabin this size.

[Eli]

It's actually amazing how much the pic of the CRZ looks like the Insight.

We could argue about could have, should have, would have all day long and it wouldn't change anything.

I tend to agree though that Honda could have put rear seats into the Insight - if they wanted to. They thought it was important enough with the CRZ, and those seats look virtually worthless, lol.

[freezin4]

Originally Posted by theaveng

One reason the insight sold so poorly was because Americans don't like two-seat cars.

What explains the relative popularity of the CRX, or the Miata, or the MR2?

We (US market) do NOT get the rear seats. Only the frisbee holders. EDM gets rear seats as they did with the CR-X.

[freezin4]

gal_lg19b.jpg

Frisbee holder.

[freezin4]

Originally Posted by Bugone

If they moved the batteries backwards into space that is already there, you could easily made it a 2+2. The only compromise would be a smaller boot.

Rear crash-worthiness would have been altered. We would have even less used battery packs in circulation today.

Another compromise would have been power and MPG with two extra passengers.

[theaveng]

Originally Posted by freezin4

What explains the relative popularity of the CRX, or the Miata, or the MR2?

In statistics aberrations/outliers are thrown out, and the Miata is one of those. Looking at the overall average: 2-seaters barely sell in the family-oriented U.S. (1000-2000 of each model per year). The CRX had an optional 2+2 seating arrangement, which is part of the reason its sales numbers were high. Rather than walk away disappointed, potential customers bought the 4 seat version instead. That is exactly what I'm suggesting Honda should have tried with the 1st gen insight, rather than saying, "The insight is a failure" and throwing the plans into the paper shredder.

We will probably never see another 60-70 mpg gas-powered car in our lifetime, which is quite sad. As for "crashworthiness" where do you think the CRz puts the battery pack? Obviously that's the same place it would go in a four-seat version of the insight, and thereby make the car more appealing

I give up. I sometimes think you people WANTED the first-gen insight to barely sell and be a flop that cost Honda millions in losses, rather than consider the idea of a 4-seat option (to boost sales & make it a success). It reminds me of the people who say, "Nobody should ever make a diesel-powered hybrid car (like a Jetta)." They want the idea to FAIL without ever saying "what if" we gave it a try. If Henry Ford had quit before he started, the Model T, S, R etc would never have existed.

A 4-seat first-gen insight that got 60-70mpg would be a hell of a lot better than the new insight Honda gave us instead (barely gets 43). That's very poor. It's pretty much a joke, since nonhybrids like the CruzeEco and HF can do just as well without the complication or expense of a large battery/motor. IMHO Honda should have stuck with their original 3-cylinder insight concept, but made it more appealing by adding the extra seats.

[MN Driver]

The CRZ put the battery forward farther than the Insight could have the battery placed. The CRZ is also taller in that 'seat' area. I've never heard of a 4-seat CRX, never have come across this, ever. If it existed, it wasn't in the US.

"I give up. I sometimes think you people WANTED the first-gen insight to barely sell and be a flop that cost Honda millions in losses, rather than consider the idea of a 4-seat option (to boost sales & make it a success). It reminds me of the people who say, "Nobody should ever make a diesel-powered hybrid car (like a Jetta)." They want the idea to FAIL without ever saying "what if" we gave it a try. If Henry Ford had quit before he started, the Model T, S, R etc would never have existed."

The four seat version of the 1st Gen Insight is pretty much the 1st Gen Civic Hybrid. It got better gas mileage than the 2nd Gen Civic Hybrid and gets better gas mileage than the 2nd Gen Insight. The 2010+ Insight really isn't an Insight by anything other than the name, they more or less copied the exterior design of the Prius and tried to market it as direct competition for the Prius but at a lower price. The problem is that the Prius is a better car for the money and the sales show that. The rest of us 1st Gen Insight owners would love to have a 2nd Gen Insight that was based on the same principles of the 1st Gen with the same effort to extreme MPG.

For all the "I sometimes think you people WANTED the first-gen insight to barely sell.." talk, that's bullshit, if this car could take 4 seats, I'd be all over that. I really don't think they could fit. I don't have children and don't want them so when I get my buddies in the car and they wouldn't be able to fit in the car without bending their neck in the back, those extra seats would have limited utility anyway. The reviews for the car that can't fit adults in the back would be a joke to automotive publishers. You need to grab some paper, a graphics editor on your computer and actually try to look at how you would put those seats in the 1st Gen Insight without changing the exterior shape and you'll figure it out. The CRZ doesn't have the same shape as the Insight so you can't copy its design into the Insight as easily as you think. Changing the shape would severely affect its aerodynamics and it wouldn't even be a 60mpg car.