Researching 1st gen Insight. Any eastern PA owners?

[Klayfish]

Hi gang! A recent thread on another car forum that I frequent started centering around the 1st gen Insight. I happen to be in the middle of trying to decide what to do about my current car situation. I'm a complete car guy, but embarrasingly enough the Insight hadn't crossed my mind until someone brought it up. I guess since it's fairly rare, it had totally slipped my mind.

Anyhow, the Insight certainly checks all the right boxes for me. I like small and light cars, I've owned many. Boring appliance cars have their place, but I also like things that are different and unique...which the Insight certainly is. Fuel efficiency and reliability are also tops on my list.

Since the Insight is fairly rare, it's hard to find one to look at. Searching Autotrader, etc...shows there aren't any for sale close to me. Are there any owners in eastern PA, preferably near Allentown who would be willing to show me their car? It would help me a lot to be able to see one, sit in it, etc... I'm curious how the car "feels" driving daily. Does it feel small inside? I'm used to small cars, I've had several early Miatas (currently have a '90) and MR2s. So the small car feel doesn't bother me, but some small cars feel as tiny as they are, others feel bigger than they are. Do you feel cramped in it (I'm an average size guy)? I figure my commute is perfect for maximizing mpg, my ride to work is 25 miles of flat suburban two lane roads. There is rarely any traffic to speak of, so I cruise at 50-55mph for most of that commute.

Thanks for any input you can give, and anyone local to me please jump in!

[freezin4]

Hi Klay,
Welcome to the forum! I also have a Miata, but I have an NB model. I have two Insights now, so if your travels bring you to MD, I can definitely meet up with you and let you drive one.
Also I often repost cars I find for sale in the For Sale section, so start looking, that way you get a feel for the price range for what's out there. (There is a gorgeous 2006 CVT near me for $10k right now at a dealer!)
Finally, mark your calendar for "the big one"! We are in the middle of planning for our second Mid-Atlantic Meetup scheduled for 18 May in Frederick, MD.
Again, welcome!



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[Klayfish]

Thanks! I've had several NA Miatas, as well as an NC, but never had an NB. How does the interior of the Insight feel, as compared to the interior of the NB? Does it feel vastly more roomy? My NC was certainly snug, but not bad for daily use. The NA is definitely a small car and feels small inside.

Yep, I've looked at the for sale section here too. If I go with an Insight, I'm definitely going with a 5spd. Probably would look toward the middle/lower end of the price scale. Long story short, my current daily is a '96 Volvo 850 wagon. I've had it a few years and love it. However, it gets 21mpg and is starting to need some work. We just got my wife a "new to her" car, but didn't trade in her old one. It's an '08 Honda Fit. Awesome car. Has tons of positives. I kind of feel crazy for considering selling it. I guess it's just a personal taste thing, but even though it's such a great car, it doesn't peak my interest as a daily driver. So I'm tossing around the idea of selling it and getting something that excites me more for less money. I'm looking for something in the $5-$6k range, but could go up a bit (of course I can always go down... but I know decent Insights don't sell for dirt cheap). If it doesn't work out, I'm perfectly content with the Fit, it's all things good about Honda. But I definitely want to check out an Insight.

[moemobile]

Klay
I'll be driving to Southern Jersey in a couple weeks and have some family to avoid during the trip, so I'll have some time to kill. Send me a Private Message and we might be able to meet up. I have a 2000 Insight 5 speed manual. You are welcome to take a look at it.

I'll put in a plug for a first gen Honda Civic Hybrid 5 speed manual. I have one of those as well and love it. If you ever need 4 doors and 50 mpg in a manual transmission, then that is the car for you.

[UK_MJN]

Originally Posted by Klayfish

Does it feel small inside? I'm used to small cars, I've had several early Miatas (currently have a '90) and MR2s. So the small car feel doesn't bother me, but some small cars feel as tiny as they are, others feel bigger than they are. Do you feel cramped in it (I'm an average size guy)?

Well I'm 1.90m (6' 3") and there is plenty of room all round. Honda clearly decided to make a good 2 seater rather than a cramped 2+2. As a passenger you could use more legroom to stretch out with the seat fully back, but as a driver there is plenty of adjustment even at my height. The pale grey scheme is light and the windows are large. So no, it doesn't feel small inside.

[EDIT: I should add that taller drivers can't see the tacho properly as the steering wheel isn't adjustable!]

[freezin4]

Originally Posted by Klayfish

How does the interior of the Insight feel, as compared to the interior of the NB? Does it feel vastly more roomy? My NC was certainly snug, but not bad for daily use. The NA is definitely a small car and feels small inside.

My current daily is a '96 Volvo 850 wagon. I've had it a few years and love it. However, it gets 21mpg and is starting to need some work.

but I know decent Insights don't sell for dirt cheap).

I would say the G1 Insight's interior space is comparable to my NB, but the rear upper deck hatch area gives it a roomier feel. It's enough for two people. The generous headroom and plentiful glass makes it feel even roomier. The Miata has a different, darker feel with the top up. Also in the G1 the "console" sits much lower (FWD), which also makes you feel like you are in a more spacious car (in comparison to the RWD NB.) (Don't expect the G1 to handle ANYWHERE close to Miata level! But, I'm probably insulting your intelligence, cause as a car-guy you already knew that.) But despite having one of the first electric power steering systems, it does real well for a small, low power FWD! Takes a bit to get used to the dissimilar front and rear track widths during spirited cornering, and the limited suspension travel in the rear. It can get bumpy with any kind of weight in the car. But it is PERFECT for what it was designed for: a small, economical, personal commuter with relatively enjoyable driving feel. Again, it's no 3-series.
I find the dash exceptionally well designed. It's engaging to look at still with each drive. Much like the S2000 design. Gives you good feedback about eco driving too.
I also love the exceptional build quality of the car, and the durability of the engine. So, don't be too scared of high miles, especially if you can confirm proper maintenance.
The BIG dealbreaker in your price range may be degrading battery packs. They can last 3 years or 13 years. About $2000 if you need a replacement, but it will be a new, higher capacity battery design. Do a search for how to road test and get a feel for the battery capacity.
They are scarce cars: There has been nearly 1 million Miatas built, and only 17 or 18,000 Gen 1 Insights. But they are out there. I recently saw a nice 2005 example, albeit a CVT, with 112K miles for $3500, with a very small front damage. Ran perfect.
Whether you own one or not, plan on attending the meetup in May. You will learn so much about the cars! Good time.

I also had a Volvo wagon ('99 V70 XC) until just very recently. I know what you mean about the repair expenses: Head gasket, RMS, Turbo seals, T-belt, fuel pump! etc The fuel pump called for 8 hrs of labor, because the axles were supposed to be pulled in the rear to drop the tank. I told the mech to cut an access hole in the rear floor to get to the pump from the top. (Saved 7 hrs labor.)

No crazy issues like that on most of the G1s. Just some pesky wet seatbelts, corroding grounding straps, flimsy underbody aero panels, O2 sensors, etc to contend with Relatively boring in comparison to the "European Experience"...JK

Originally Posted by moemobile

I'll put in a plug for a first gen Honda Civic Hybrid 5 speed manual. I have one of those as well and love it. If you ever need 4 doors and 50 mpg in a manual transmission, then that is the car for you.

@ Moe, Do you have the leanburn mode? If so, what are your experiences with its limits as compared to the G1? (i.e. can you engage LB at 50 mph? or above?)

[Klayfish]

I've been very lucky with my Volvo, it's been quite reliable in the 33k+ miles I've put on it. Heck, it doesn't even have any warning lights on the dash lit...amazing for an old European car. The stuff it needs now is largely routine. What's really driving my decision is that even if I fix it, I'm still left with a gas hungry car. Darn shame too, I really like it. Who knows, I may wind up hanging onto it as a beater.

No worries on the handling front. I definitely realize the car isn't a corner carver, especially with the different front/rear tracks and the low rolling resistance tires. That's perfectly fine with me. My Miata can scratch my handling itch every time I drive it. Plus I do some road racing as part of a LeMons (cheap car racing) team, so I get my kicks there. I like cars that are engauging and interesting to drive. Doesn't have to be sporty per se, but just can't be a total snore.

Manual trans is definitely my preference, but if a can't miss deal came along on an auto, I'd be fine with it. My Volvo is an auto. Like you said, the Insight is rare, and I'm trying to keep it on a budget, so beggars can't be choosers.

UK,
Good point on the 2 seat only vs. 2+2. I'm only 5'9", so I'm sure I'll have plenty of room. Just want to make sure it doesn't feel claustrophobic.

[Klayfish]

Still hoping to find a local car to check out.

In the meantime, question for all you guys/gals. One of the few things I don't like about my Fit is that it feels rushed and hurried at 60mph+. It's mostly due to the gearing. The engine is revving hard at highway speeds. How is the gearing on the Insight?

How good is the climate control system (assuming I get a car with a/c)? Where I live, it can get to single digits in the winter and upper 90s in the summer.

[Eli]

The Insight's gearing is.. geared.. towards fuel economy overall. 3rd gear is almost overdrive, and 4th is an overdrive gear. I think the Insight is spinning around 3,000RPM at 80MPH.

You'll struggle to reach/maintain cabin temperature depending on how long your commute is in those types of cold temperatures, and fuel economy will go down. A block heater may be a good investment.

The A/C works fine, but it lowers your fuel economy by as much as 25% if you're at the high end and 5-8% at the low end of the MPG scale.

[RedJellyBean]

Originally Posted by Klayfish

Anyhow, the Insight certainly checks all the right boxes for me. I like small and light cars, I've owned many. Boring appliance cars have their place, but I also like things that are different and unique...which the Insight certainly is. Fuel efficiency and reliability are also tops on my list.

The Insight is a sweet-driving car, great handling and crisp turn-in. The biggest problem I have with mine is how incredibly underpowered it is, but I'm running a battery pack with about 8 percent of its original capacity usable today.