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Old 01-29-2013, 11:23 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Is this normal ?

I have read on here that the charging algorithm seems to be a mystery, and with my car it sure seems to be... The SOC will stay close to full for a couple of days, even going into town with all the stop and go. Braking charge seems to hold it there. Then, it it is like it becomes assist happy. It will then drop to around half, maybe going to a quarter for a couple of days, with occasional charging (in addition to braking). The last two days it is back down to three bars, where I am expecting anytime to see a force charge kick in... Sometimes the force charge will kick in when it is at the quarter on the SOC. It will then charge back up to three quarters or full and then this cycle starts all over again. I was reading a thread talking about the BCM changes to help promote longer battery life by way of controlling the number of cycles. With my car it is like there is a time or mileage factor in the algorithm that kicks in a charge cycle that brings the SOC back to the top, otherwise it is using the full battery before charging, thus overall decreasing the smaller cycling. I do have normal braking charge, but this no where recovers the assist. And I am not aggressive this is just normal keeping up with the traffic driving. I recently installed a new battery which gives me a lot more time now between full and empty SOC and forced charges. But, I have been surprised to see the full range of the SOC being used so much. So I am wondering is this just normal for the controllers I have in my car? I read on here others saying their SOC stays near the top, or uses few bars on assist, etc. My controller are: 1K100-PHM-A01 and 1K000-PHM-070. Anyone with these controllers to give me a comparison? There doesn't seem to be anything wrong with the car. My mileage did actually increase with the new battery. Even at the bottom of the SOC scale I have plenty of assist, the battery seems to be great. It just seems to be more of mileage or time that kicks in the charging cycle. So I am thinking it is just the design of what I have in it...
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Old 01-29-2013, 03:51 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Yes, it's "normal". It not be normal for someone else, but it seems to be normal for you.

Those are the latest controllers. Curious.

Only thing I can really suggest is trying some of the earlier revision computers. We really don't understand the computers on a high level, and when you throw in all the variables of someones commute, it's just impossible. You would be the best one to compare and comment.
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Old 01-29-2013, 08:48 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Default May be normal, but not on mine with same controllers

Like Eli says, it may be normal for your car.

I do a 26.5 mile commute daily, 9 miles of it on side roads, and whether I like it or not, have the same controllers you have in all three of my MT cars (my CVT has the original controllers). I grid charge the batteries, and recently rebuilt two of them, and they are in decent condition, but nowhere near new any more.

My experience with the two MT cars currently on the road is the SOC stays between 18 to 20 bars. Even the one I just bought with a failed IMA battery stayed all the way up between 18 and 20 bars after I disconnected the battery cable on its 42 mile trip home (but it did drop quickly to ten bars on a long hill where I couldn't avoid assist, and then recovered pretty quickly due to its very low capacity). I drive them conservatively, and stay out of assist as much as possible (much to the consternation of the occasional clod that gets behind me on the side roads).

I imagine it is just the way your car responds to your driving. I gather by new battery you mean the Honda replacement battery, which do not seem to be as good any more.

My 0.02 worth,
Tim Glover

Last edited by TopFuelTim; 01-29-2013 at 08:52 PM. Reason: can't spell
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Old 01-29-2013, 10:01 PM   #4 (permalink)
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It must just be my driving style and driving location if you have the same computers. The battery is a new MAXIMA. I saw the same (full range of the SOC) with my old battery, just had a lot more force charges and IMA lights with it. The new battery is fine. I never run out of assist now like I did before. When I say my car at times seems to be assist happy. I will be traveling at say 45 staying with the flow of traffic. I look down and four bars of assist are on. I lightly let off, the bars go away, but then I find I am slowly dropping speed. Any attempt to stay up with the flow brings the assist on... It is not always sensitive like this, just on the days I see the SOC drop to the bottom of the scale. When it is like this, I don't see any charging (except for braking) until a force charge kicks in after a couple of days. On the days the SOC stays at the top, I do see balanced assist and charging bars. The car is not near as sensitive to keep the assist off. I still make heavy use of my Calpod switches on the sensitive days.
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Old 01-29-2013, 10:23 PM   #5 (permalink)
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More than likely it is your driving style.
Remember assist is determined mainly by the "load" on the engine.

You say 45 with traffic.
What gear are you in.
5th gear you are loading the engine.
4th gear, not as big of a load.
Whenever the "assist" kicks in at lower rpm, your timing goes retarded, so therfore you are not using the engine for power. Above 3200rpm and the timing stays advanced with assist. I have the 070/A01 combination and it seems that the IMA is always trying to keep the battery "full". I also have MAXIMA #2.
If you have an OBDIIC&C gauge you can see everything that is happening with the charging.

HTH
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Old 01-29-2013, 10:41 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Willie I believe you may have hit it. I always run in 5th to keep the instan. mpg high. My shift pattern is 1,2,3,5 most of the time. And I usually have seen less assist by getting into 5th sooner, so this has become my default driving style. But from what you described, it is worth changing to see if my average parameters change.
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Old 01-30-2013, 05:35 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Few questions..

What tires do you run? PSI?

The "bad" days aren't just bad days, they have a reason. What are the wind patterns in your area like?

Careful with the skip shifts. You'll wear 5th gear's synchro, which will actually cause grind on the upshift.
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Old 01-30-2013, 05:38 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Driving in traffic at 45, it is very difficult to stay in lean burn in 5th gear. I've seen better mileage by driving in lower gears because it is easier to maintain lean burn that way. Lean burn in 3rd or 4th yields better MPG than rich burn in 4th or 5th.
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Old 01-30-2013, 05:43 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Varak View Post
Driving in traffic at 45, it is very difficult to stay in lean burn in 5th gear. I've seen better mileage by driving in lower gears because it is easier to maintain lean burn that way. Lean burn in 3rd or 4th yields better MPG than rich burn in 4th or 5th.
I notice this in the 460,000 mile car fairly profoundly, but not so much in the other cars. I guess it must really depend on your conditions, too.

It's really interesting watching how the OBDII engine parameters change as you go up and down in elevation, particularly.
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Old 01-30-2013, 10:12 AM   #10 (permalink)
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I have been running RE92s. Just put a new set on Monday. I run front 44psi, back 42 (and they still wore out on the edges). The tire dealer had all of them at 34, so I have immediately bump them up. Before the Insight I drove a Miata and carried my shift pattern forward from that. Only downshifted to 4th to pass. I have always read for best fuel Eco to get into the highest gear as soon as possible. I understand with the lean burn this a different car, and I am still learning it's characteristics. And I understand what Willie was saying about loading this small engine. So I will ignore the green up shift indicator and stay in fourth a bit longer and see how that does. I am sure an ODBIIC&C gage would help me see lean burn better, whereas I have been just trying to maintain the Instan. Mpg as high as possible, and this probably has been at the expense of the battery. But I am not sure I could see the rest of the gage with my eyes to make it worth the purchase. I have not had a chance to see one in person yet. So for now I am going to change my shifting and see how that effects the SOC vs the lean burn.
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