Another use for old subpacks? - Insight Central: Honda Insight Forum
 
Go Back   Insight Central: Honda Insight Forum > 1st Generation Honda Insight Forum > Honda Insight Forum 1st-Gen Discussion

Please Visit our Site Sponsors Page
Insightcentral.net is the premier Honda Insight Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.

» Auto Insurance
» Featured Product
» Wheel & Tire Center

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 02-11-2013, 11:18 PM   #1 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Chino Hills, CA
Posts: 155
Default Another use for old subpacks?

I am building a recumbent trike (human powered) with an electric motor assist for hills. Sealed lead acid batteries are cheap but heavy, LiPo batteries are light but expensive, but what about Insight subpacks. How do they compare in terms of weight, capacity, and power delivery. I have my old IMA battery just sitting on a shelf. I'm sure there's a quite a few good subpacks left.
met-head is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 02-12-2013, 11:13 AM   #2 (permalink)
Moderator
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Central Virginia
Posts: 1,244
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by met-head View Post
I am building a recumbent trike (human powered) with an electric motor assist for hills. Sealed lead acid batteries are cheap but heavy, LiPo batteries are light but expensive, but what about Insight subpacks. How do they compare in terms of weight, capacity, and power delivery. I have my old IMA battery just sitting on a shelf. I'm sure there's a quite a few good subpacks left.
They have less capacity/weight than lead acid. They are used in the Insight because of other advantages.

For example, a single Trojan T105 golf cart battery, like my RV uses, delivers 220 A/Hr at 6 volts. The single stick voltage from an Insight pack has roughly the same voltage, or slightly more. If you could operate all 20 sticks in parallel you would get only 130 A/Hr. (They are in series in the pack.) The weights of the two approaches are approximately equal at 60-65 pounds.

IF you could design a regenerative charging system with your electric assist motor, then you might make the system work to your advantage. But remember, with energy conversions, you never get something for nothing. You would recover energy only while coasting or braking and that energy would have to be replaced by future pedal work. To top it off, the energy conversion is not 100% efficient, so extra pedal work would be required to make up for those loses.

Of course, you could design a simple "assist" system that did not regenerate the charge and simply plug in a charger between rides. Such a system could have advantages if your uphills are really tough and your gearing isn't adequate. The Insight sticks would have an advantage in that they can be charged much quicker by comparison. Just a thought.

I'm not a biker, but this is my take. JMHO.
__________________
2000 MT Citrus(DogBite); 2000 MT Citrus; 2001 MT; 2006 MT
jime is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2013, 11:28 AM   #3 (permalink)
Moderator
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Richmond, VA
Posts: 5,989
Default

I dont think you can go wrong with the hobby packs on ebay. Ive seen it all there, bms, balancers, chargers, etc. Plus if you got regen braking you will be able to capture more of that energy than if you went with nicad or lead.

If you do not mind breaking your sticks, then matching them, you would have a nice pack. Still nicad or nickel metal is rather heavy in relation to lifepo. Assuming a good cell you got 6.5 amp capacity. All it takes is one bad cell to ruin the pack.
__________________
Fully Eco Modded 2010 Honda Insight PHEV
Semi Eco Modded 1995 Suzuki Sidekick LJX
Cobb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2013, 04:26 PM   #4 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Mario's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Seal Beach, California
Posts: 145
Default

Speaking from personal experience, I'd go with a LiFePO4 (Lithium Iron Phosphate) pack. They're lighter and have greater energy density than Ni-Mh and Ni-Cd, and do not explode if punctured like Li-Po.

I've built an electric mountain board with a 1/2hp electric motor and a 10Ah, 24v LiFePO4 pack. It gets up to 20mph very quickly and lasts about an hour on flat ground if I'm going a bit slower. Probably about an eight-mile range.

The biggest problem is they they're very expensive... that pack cost me about $350. But if I had to recommend a battery chemistry, that would be it. Not the answer you were looking for, I know, but hopefully at least helpful.
Mario is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2013, 05:01 PM   #5 (permalink)
Lean Burn = Happiness
 
jeff652's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Silicon Valley, CA
Posts: 1,398
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jime View Post
For example, a single Trojan T105 golf cart battery, like my RV uses, delivers 220 A/Hr at 6 volts.
What kid of RV? I accidentally cooked out our two T105s on our TT. Left them connected to the inverter for a few weeks. Doh! They are up to ~$150 each now too. When I bought the first two in '05 they were only $95 each
__________________
FS: Simple Grid Chargers - 00-06 Insight & 03-05 Civic Hybrid
HybridAutomotive.com (Now Includes the Insight/Civic IMA Battery Instructions)
Citrus 2000 MT MIMA, Silver 2000 MT Beater
Best Tank: 90.2MPG over 918.7 miles 010MCM/030BCM, No MIMA. Details: My Commute MPGs
Current score: Bought/Selling/Sold/Dismantled six silvers, one blue, and a Citrus to keep for myself.
jeff652 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2013, 06:00 PM   #6 (permalink)
Moderator
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Central Virginia
Posts: 1,244
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeff652 View Post
What kid of RV? I accidentally cooked out our two T105s on our TT. Left them connected to the inverter for a few weeks. Doh! They are up to ~$150 each now too. When I bought the first two in '05 they were only $95 each
Newmar Dutch Star Diesel. Wife and I traveled in it full time for 9 years. Still make a few big trip each year. Headed to Southwest right now. Dragging my 01 Insight "Mileage Master" on a modified dolly.

Yeah, keeping the inverter on will kill 'em. It has enough parasitic losses to pull the batteries down into the mud, then shoot them through the head
__________________
2000 MT Citrus(DogBite); 2000 MT Citrus; 2001 MT; 2006 MT
jime is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.2

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:22 AM.



Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2013, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2