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Old 07-03-2009, 05:17 PM   #11 (permalink)
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So what's wrong with me getting SOME of MY money back?

If the program is there and you can take advantage of it, then why not? I can assure you that I paid more than $4500 in taxes this year. So if you wanna look at it that way, I'm not taking anyone else's money but my own.

The government pays for foodstamps and other welfare that I have never had any direct benefit from. Do I bitch about that? Of course. Now they're offering something that I CAN benefit from. So I'll take it. I do not feel that it is dishonorable or unpatriotic or anything of the sort.
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Ok I'll shorten the list :

Current Vehicles:

2010 Insight
2000 S2000
2009 Tacoma (for "haulin' stuff")
2008 Honda Rebel 250

Future Vehicles:

CR-Z?
Honda Shadow VLX
Tesla Roadster (I wish)
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Old 07-03-2009, 05:28 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bish79 View Post
So what's wrong with me getting SOME of MY money back?

If the program is there and you can take advantage of it, then why not? I can assure you that I paid more than $4500 in taxes this year. So if you wanna look at it that way, I'm not taking anyone else's money but my own.

The government pays for foodstamps and other welfare that I have never had any direct benefit from. Do I bitch about that? Of course. Now they're offering something that I CAN benefit from. So I'll take it. I do not feel that it is dishonorable or unpatriotic or anything of the sort.

It is inequitable, and unfair..

Millions paid the taxes. but only a few will realize a return..

It is wrong.
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Old 07-03-2009, 06:26 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wstander View Post
It is inequitable, and unfair..

Millions paid the taxes. but only a few will realize a return..

It is wrong.
I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.
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Ok I'll shorten the list :

Current Vehicles:

2010 Insight
2000 S2000
2009 Tacoma (for "haulin' stuff")
2008 Honda Rebel 250

Future Vehicles:

CR-Z?
Honda Shadow VLX
Tesla Roadster (I wish)
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Old 07-03-2009, 07:28 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by bish79 View Post
I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.
Yeah.........

I guess it like rewarding past bad behavior, like promoting the office drunk over the sober folks, after he graduates 12-step....
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Old 07-03-2009, 07:59 PM   #15 (permalink)
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I wonder how many people are going to take advantage of this program? I know there's a lot of skepticism about it, as the people driving these cars most likely are driving them because they cannot afford a new car, and that $4,500 is not going to help them.
I know one person who's trading in their Ford for an Audi. Because they really needed that $4,500, clearly.

Also, it gets rid of a group of old cars that might be the only cars in someone's price range. For example, my parents' old Toyota minivan would qualify. But yeah, even though it's a gas guzzler, does that mean we should trash something that runs perfectly fine that a poor family might really need?

It's a tad confusing I guess!
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Old 07-04-2009, 04:21 AM   #16 (permalink)
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I'm sort-of in agreement with all of you.

The deal here was seen as just an electoral bribe (we'll have an election in about 10 months - if the government doesn't collapse before then...)

The Greens aren't happy about the scrappage deal as it was pushed through by motor industry lobbyists (no surprise there) and its conditions are too loose.

To qualify all you need is a car that:
  • Is 10+ years old.
  • Was originally registered in the UK (so no grey imports).
  • Has been registered to the owner for 12+ months (to stop people buying a £200 junker now and trading it for the £2000 discount).
  • Has a valid MOT (annual test certificate so that it's safe to drive to the dealer).
  • Has valid insurance. (so you're safe to crash it on the way to the dealer)

You must buy a new car (not used, not dealer pre-registered old stock, UK dealers only). Curiously, even though the deal was supposed to promote the green campaign there was no stipulation that you had to buy a more efficient car than your old one. I could have traded my 38 mpg Accord for a 19 mpg BMW M3... Hence the unhappiness of the Greens.

The government doesn't pay the whole £2000 though. £1000 of it has to come from the car dealer. This lead to some unscrupulous manufacturers increasing their prices in the two weeks between the deal being announced and the start date when customers could order a car on the scheme. At least the price of the I2 didn't change.

So yes, it was robbing the tax coffers to give to the likes of me but it's my tax too so you have to claw back what you can when it's offered.

The government set aside £300m for the programme and set an end date of May 2010 (or sooner if the cash runs out). They underestimated the demand a bit though as it looks like the cash might run out by September at the current rate of up-take. Honda initially only agreed to take part for 3 months from May 18th (when the programme started). I put my order in and then had to wait a month for delivery.

They've got another programme lined up to promote electric only cars in 2011. In that deal you'll be able to trade a junker for £5000 off a EV but it has to be a pure electric model. That's why they aren't doing that deal now - there aren't any decent EVs on the market yet. The ones that are on the market aren't very good and some aren't even "cars" in the legal sense but "quadracycles". This is a loophole that allows very low powered cars to avoid full safety regulations... So these cars might save the planet but they won't save you in a crash. Later this year or early next year the first proper cars are due (BMW Mini and Citroen C1 EV conversions).

Of course that whole programme might be just an election trick as the programme start date is cunningly after the election...
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