The idea of producing a lower cost Hybrid is a good one and one that Edmunds failed to recognize. So, the Insight shouldn't be on the worst idea list for 2009. Worst car list for 2009? Maybe, in the eyes of some.
For me, all I expect out of it is to get me back and forth to work, be able to put groceries and things in the back and fit my family of 3 on certain occasions. And yeah it does all of this while getting 50+ MPG with an estimated fuel cost savings of 50 to 60% over previous cars.
Honda did produce the first Hybrid under $20,000. When it first came out the Prius was 25K and Fusion Hybrid 28K. Now Prius is less expensive. Why? The Insight.
It may not be a success for a Honda and for the general public, but its still a good idea. The execution just needs some refinement.
Every time I read bad reviews I question why it's bad. To that end the more press we give them the more we feed the bad articles. As I said in another bad review we need to forward the cause of good mileage cars maybe it be hybrids or plug-ins and to that end, Honda is the only company fueling that with the I2. So I'm in jraynor196's camp too, or is he in mine?
I will admit the MPGs aren't as impressive but it also doesn't suffer from several recalls. Econ mode is for all purpose a trainer and those who can't train with it really doesn't understand the value it plays for everyone wanting to do their part for the right reasons. You might have a real revolution putting Econ in regular gas cars too, sadly the EPA numbers won't change, the EPA needs to re-evaluate their MPG formulas. But let's not forget who owns the NiMH patents which prevent true EV cars and super large batteries in hybrids that is where the source of today's problems is.
It may not be a success for a Honda and for the general public, but its still a good idea. The execution just needs some refinement.
This comment is right on target. The I2 is a decent car (it meets my needs very well) and contains the core of what could be an excellent car. I just hope Honda sticks with it and refines the execution in the ways we know they are capable of.
It is interesting to note that Mercedes selected the same engine/drivetrain concept as the I2 for their new S class hybrid (i.e., electric assist for the ICE in weak hybrid mode, rather than full hybrid as in the Prius or Fusion).
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2010 EXN, White/grey
2004 Accord 4 cyl (sold to my son)
2005 V70 (wife's car)
2001 Forester (daughter's car)
The high gas price explanation that I hear frequently makes no sense. The Prius is more expensive than the Insight yet is selling something like 8x more cars.
I have to disagree with this for a few reasons:
1. With gas prices this low, only intelligent people are buying fuel efficient cars with the knowledge that prices will go back up. Unfortunately, there are not many intelligent people left in today's society.
2. The reason the Prius is outselling the Insight 8X despite the low price of gas is two fold
a. There are alot ( 1 million +) of gen 2 Prius owners who just HAVE to have the new gadgets that the new Prius offers, so if you get even a small fraction of them into a new Prius you can sell 150,000 pretty quick.
b. The marketing campaign for the I2 SUCKS!! Still to this day people don't know what my car is when they see it. Why is anyone going to buy one if they don't even know it exists??
So I do think we would be in a totally different boat if gas were $4.50/gallon and Honda actually had a real marketing campaign. Would they outsell the Prius? Probably not. But I bet they would hit their sales goals.
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Ok I'll shorten the list :
Current Vehicles:
2010 Insight
2007 Fit Sport MANUAL
2010 Honda NT700V Deauville
I love those people who go right for benefits of cost vs savings from mpg. They tell me right off I made a bad investment buying a hybrid and have to drive 150 thousand miles to break even.
I then tell them I got 3 grand from my employer from buying one, then 10 grand in trade for my other 2 vehicles, 1 which was paid for and a gas guzzler.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bish79
I have to disagree with this for a few reasons:
1. With gas prices this low, only intelligent people are buying fuel efficient cars with the knowledge that prices will go back up. Unfortunately, there are not many intelligent people left in today's society.
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Enginer 4 kilowatt PHEV, 3000k 35 watt fogs, Eco bulb highs, 4300k 35 watt low all w/relay kits, DRLs/Rear Wiper removed&rear interior gutted, Sony HU W/front speakers, Tanabe nf springs, 35% tint all around, all LED lamp replacement, 09 fit progress rear sway bar, OEM block heater, full gril block, KN Filter, Honda vent visiors, group 51 battery, home made balancer/grid charger Best/Worse MPG 96/36
a. There are alot ( 1 million +) of gen 2 Prius owners who just HAVE to have the new gadgets that the new Prius offers, so if you get even a small fraction of them into a new Prius you can sell 150,000 pretty quick.
b. The marketing campaign for the I2 SUCKS!! Still to this day people don't know what my car is when they see it. Why is anyone going to buy one if they don't even know it exists??
So I do think we would be in a totally different boat if gas were $4.50/gallon and Honda actually had a real marketing campaign. Would they outsell the Prius? Probably not. But I bet they would hit their sales goals.
Well said. I've actually said the same thing as your point A (though possibly not on this forum and certainly not in this thread). There are a ton of previous generation Prius owners out there and unless they hated their car they will likely replace it with another Prius.
A couple Insight ads were decent (the parking garage one in particular) but overall I agree, teh marketing was poor. It claimed to be the hybrid for everyone but never said why.
There is another possibility many people may be overlooking.
When I bought the 2010 Insight back in April, I had been shopping for a Prius. The problem was even the used ones were fetching prices close to new ones. I had actually quit looking for a Prius because they were too expensive. A few months went by and the Insight came out and I was in need of a new car. I didn't bother to check the used market again, and just went to buy the Insight.
Well, low and behold, I look on craigslist a week after buying the Insight and what do I see? Used 2-gen Prius's selling for $11,000. After gas finally came down, so did the price of the used Prius. In fact, after realizing this fact I sort of regretted buying the Insight because I could have bought 2 used 2-gen Prius's for the same price as I paid for the Insight and my wife and I could both have one.
In fact, I just bought a used 2002 Prius off of craigslist for $2,800 last week. The hybrid battery is dead but I'm getting a new battery and going to fix it up.
There is another possibility many people may be overlooking.
When I bought the 2010 Insight back in April, I had been shopping for a Prius. The problem was even the used ones were fetching prices close to new ones. I had actually quit looking for a Prius because they were too expensive. A few months went by and the Insight came out and I was in need of a new car. I didn't bother to check the used market again, and just went to buy the Insight.
Well, low and behold, I look on craigslist a week after buying the Insight and what do I see? Used 2-gen Prius's selling for $11,000. After gas finally came down, so did the price of the used Prius. In fact, after realizing this fact I sort of regretted buying the Insight because I could have bought 2 used 2-gen Prius's for the same price as I paid for the Insight and my wife and I could both have one.
In fact, I just bought a used 2002 Prius off of craigslist for $2,800 last week. The hybrid battery is dead but I'm getting a new battery and going to fix it up.
You just pointed out reason #3 why the P3 is outselling the I2. Because of all of the P2 owners trading in their cars for P3's, you flood the market with used P2's that the I2 can't compete with price-wise.
Too bad Honda didn't have the I2 out about 2 years ago when gas was expensive and the P2's were selling for upwards of $30,000. I just hope they don't do something really stupid like discontinue the I2, which as Murphy's Law would dictate, a huge rebound in gas prices would then follow and Honda would be without an inexpensive hybrid... Again.
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Ok I'll shorten the list :
Current Vehicles:
2010 Insight
2007 Fit Sport MANUAL
2010 Honda NT700V Deauville
The numbers dont lie. I like it, but I am sure today if Honda used the latest tech they could easily beat Toy. Its just a recirnation of the ima system, smaller battery and fit motor. Come on, the battery compartment in the back is freaking huge, they could easily put in a larger one, used the fits 1.5l Atkinson cycle motor or at least used the 16 valve timming thingie they use on the civic.
a larger battery would cost more. the 1.5 vs 1.3 isnt really that big of a difference. the 1.5 is more heavier than the 1298cc one and having DOHC wont make a big improvement on the consumption. it could actually hurt MPG having 4 valves per cylinder.
look at the HCH. it says what 48MPG i think? and is a better IMA system they say? so why does our car get more MPG in real life? look at the prius, from 1500CC they increased to 1800cc. was there a big jump in MPG? most gen 3 owners are actually complaining that they are getting less what the EPA advertised and some are saying that the MPG is the same as the older gen 2.
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