Runaway prius

[adric22]

I'm sure everyone's seen the news today about the runaway prius. I am baffled by this as the Prius was never part of the recall anyway since the only Toyota models affected were those made in the USA and the Prius is made in Japan. (although there is the possibility it was the floormat causing it)

Still. I really hate to see this kind of negative publicity against any Hybrid, but at least it isn't any part of the hybrid system itself to blame.

I am curious, however, if this event may cause potential Prius buyers to have a second look at the Insight.

[Car54]

The interview this morning on ABC with the driver, and State Trooper who was along side the car at 90mph, was clear that the car would not turn off, the floor mat was not stuck, and the driver said he could get it to slow down a little, by applying the parking brake, and regular brake at the same time. Who knows.

[jpleong]

A more thorough reporting of the event in question: Driver: My Prius took me for a ride - CNN.com

I am hesitant to fault the machine...

JP

[jraynor196]

Wow- How long does it take for a Prius to get over 90 MPH?

Come on now, shut the car down, take some measure of responsibility. The Insight slides into N so easily a Caveman could do it.

I'm telling you, those hybrids are possesed by the devil.

http://www.open.salon.com/blog/jamie...ing_to_kill_me

[bish79]

People are always asking me if I worry about the throttle sticking in my Tacoma. I just laugh at them and point out that it is a manual, so all I would have to do is stop like I normally would by pushing in the clutch and hitting the brake...

Just one more reason I prefer a manual over an automatic.

[Cobb]

I had a family member tell me that the horror stories they hear you cant shift to nutral when the tranny is under a load, or turn the key off. I proceeded on a clear stretch of road to floor it, shift to nutral, then turn the key off. I still had brakes and steering. The person almost flipped out. I told them in my limited driving experience I have had floor mats prevent you from pressing the petals to the floor, not the other way around.

[MN Driver]

The second generation doesn't have a key. It has a power button. I watched a video on this the other day. When you have it in park, pressing the power button will turn it off right away. ...but if you are driving with a Toyota or a Mazda(might have been Nissan instead of a Mazda, I didn't get a good look at the logo right in the middle of the steering wheel when it was in the picture) and you press the Power button, it WILL NOT shut off to prevent someone from -accidentally- turning it off while driving. What they showed in the video is that it's just like a computer, you must hold it down. They showed this, it took 3 seconds of holding it to shut off the engine. They also explained that a toyota put in neutral under full throttle wouldn't drop to neutral due to some deal with the power split device being unable to disengage at high RPM or something(they don't use a torque convertor or planetary gears). They didn't demonstrate the neutral thing, but they did show with the Nissan or the Mazda, whichever it was that you could power that particular vehicle off by stabbing at the power button three times and it would shut off. The video also described that with most of these issues, the floor mats were secure and not interfering with the throttle.

I've always been boggled as to how these happened because with most cars the brakes are designed to outpower the engine, and typically you can cut the ignition with a key, put it in neutral, or lift the accelerator but apparently they've made a dangerous combination by eliminating all of the failsafes that would normally allow you to stop the car. If I owned a Toyota at this point, I'd wire up a simple old fashioned kill switch to cut the ignition, or just a switch to cut the main ignition wire(s) or other wire that is required to produce spark or provide fuel when switched off. The acceleration is controlled by an electronic throttle sensor called a hall-effect sensor that senses the distance of a magnet from a collector by measuring the voltage created by its proximity(among other definitions). Something must be wacking out these sensors or interfering with the low voltage(under 2 volts) that they operate with.

I think the power button and neutral concept needs to be tested, on every vehicle I've owned I've dropped it into neutral under load, whether manual or auto, and also powered off the key. Things have always shut down. I've also tested my brakes, with every car I've owned, I've floored it at highway speeds and slammed the brakes, the cars brakes have always caused the car to slow down far faster than it would normally accelerate, even at full throttle. Makes me think the Prius has a very underpowered braking system. I wish I had a 2nd or 3rd Gen Prius to play with and validate to see if these are really problems or not. I know the 1st Gen uses an actual key. I usually buy cars when they hit the 10 year mark, I've already ruled out the 1st Gen Prius and landed on the 1st Gen Insight due to how expensive and suddent the failures are to the 1st Gen such as steering racks that suddenly go, transmissions that will work great one day and the next day are finished, the battery that if it has a problem can't even move a foot. At least with the Gen 2 Insight and Civic Hybrids, you can drive it until the 12 volt battery is dead, which means if the battery is in decent shape it will likely get you 30 minutes home with the lights and all accesories off or to a dealer if it is brought right away. Gen 1 can be driven indefinitely without the battery in place.

I'm considering the Chevy Volt when one comes into my standard vehicle buying price range, which is probably somewhere between 8-10 years after it's launch, it uses the power button but a full electric car has enough torque to overpower a vehicles brakes no matter how strong they are, so if I ever get to test driving one, which I might do sometime next year just to try it if they aren't disappearing like hot cakes when they arrive to my state, I'll make sure that the power button shuts it down, and that neutral disengages the transmission at highway speeds with full throttle.

[stevenvillatoro]

It used to be the case that, if you would shut off the ignition, it would lock the steering wheel in an 'anti-theft' position, among other things. No vehicle control was possible – not what you would want to happen going 90 MPH on a curvy road!

In a more modern vehicle, can you still retain steering control when the ignition is shut off?

[adric22]

Originally Posted by MN Driver

They also explained that a toyota put in neutral under full throttle wouldn't drop to neutral due to some deal with the power split device being unable to disengage at high RPM or something(they don't use a torque convertor or planetary gears).

Actually, this is not true. I know the Prius powersplit device very well. In fact, the whole concept is based around planetary gears. And there is no engaging or disengaging involved. Everything in the prius is controlled by how fast and in which direction the two electric motors are spinning. In fact, there really is no "neutral" either. It is just a computer thing.

Several guys over at priuschat.com have tested this and the car will not go into neutral when the accellerator floored unless you hold it there (much like the power button) BUT - if you try to put it into park, it will drop to neutral immediately (but will not attempt to engage the parking pall unless the car is stopped. )

I saw some more news of this issue this morning and apparently the 911 operator told the guy to put the car into neutral and he refused to do it because he said he was uncomfortable with that. They also said the pedal appeared to be stuck, so this does rule out a software glitch.

[MN Driver]

I've seen the pictures of the transmission and thought that the gear set was different as it's setup so different, but that's a bit strange that someone in a runaway car feels uncomfortable with putting a car in neutral. I also think it is pretty easy to feel like or assume that the pedal is stuck down when the engine is wide open, even if it isn't.

It amazes me how that for a car that has been around since 2004 that suddenly all of these stories crop up in a matter of no time at all. I think much of it is the media feeding into a crisis much like they do for everything else because emotions pull ratings. If I had a Prius I'd be comfortable driving it, I'd just make sure that I knew how to shut it down, which if I had one, I would have already figured that out. Before I bought my Gen 1, I made sure I was able to shut down the car and retain steering, it's all a matter of not turning the key all the way to the lock position and just to acc for most cars. I use a key-off forced engine stop often anyway since I coast to a stop often under speeds where I reach the point where I can get more regen and the auto-stop wouldn't kick in because I'm not slow enough or because I had the heat on so it disabled itself.