Did You Consider CR-Z vs Insight

[Jayemtee]

With the gas prices and economy as they are, there is a premium on the used hybrid market. A local dealer offered me much more than I owe on my 2010 EX w/nav. I can pretty much do a lateral trade for a new CR-Z EX w/nav but I'm not sure I want to. There are numbers to be juggled with refinancing, taxes, tags, insurance etc, but it's pretty much even in my book. So now I have reverse sticker shock from not being upside down after one year.

I like my Insight…a lot. My back seats have been folded down since I got it about 10 months ago, so I don't need the room. I kinda wish it had about 10 more horsepower on the freeway, but it's not a big deal. I've put about $1000 in filters, fluids, spares, and stuff. Some can carry over, some can not. Finally, I'm not convinced the Honda CVT system is bullet proof.

I'm not excited about the fuel economy of the CR-Z. I think my driving style will beat the EPA numbers, still I doubt it will ever beat the Insight. In a lateral trade, I'll be getting new tires, new oil, new IMA battery, new warranty, etc., but I am really curious about getting slightly newer technology in software for IMA/autostop/whatever. And I like 4 wheel disc brakes.

As an older man, I'm not so interested in style, the 6-speed, or ego, as I have been. Although if it wasn't for the Prius hogging the ugly banner, the Insight might look pretty lame on the hybrid market. I guess my biggest thoughts are getting a new car or being one year closer to paying down the loan. I'd be happy either way.

Anyway, since I am so neutral on the pros and cons, I was curious if anyone considered a CR-Z and decided on the Insight and why? I'm also curious if anyone had their Insight appraised since the gas spike. Comments?

[Cobb]

Ive driven a crz with the cvt. I wasnt impressed. Maybe if a stick performs better, but I do care for my elderly parents and its only a 2 seater.

I was going to go for a turbo charger, then went with the enginer phev. It gives more power, so the ima works harder. I guess if you only need a few mpre hp, you can try a cai and axle back for less than a grand. 22 grand for the phex. Just remember it takes a kilowatt an hour and 2 kilowatts need to be recharged after 2 hours of use. I hate it when mines goes flat, so I upgraded to 4.

[Cobb]

No responses?

In all seriousness if you want a crotch rocket with great fuel economy and 4 wheels with crash protection the crz has potential. Get the suspension lower and firmed up, get some body parts to make it more aero. Get a forced induction system to blow some air through the dohc head, cai and axle back. Lets throw in a phev too, 4kilowattts.

[Jsol92]

I considered getting the CRZ when I was in the market for buying a new car, but I quickly turned away from it after seeing a few reviews. After watching various videos and reading several articles not once did someone fail to mention their disappointment with the CRZ's use of IMA.

My main reason was for it only being a two-seater, but it just seemed as if it wasn't up to par with other hybrids/sports cars.

The CRZ is aimed towards a very strange market. Part of me wants to say it's aimed at the hybrid market but its EPA ratings are too low to attract people from there...but the other part says it's aimed at the sports car market, but it's much too dumbed down because of the IMA for people from that market to even consider it.
BUT WAIT! It's a two-seater, and there's a fancy sport mode button...so that has to give it like 10 more points in the sporty category.

Both cars have about the same torques, but the CRZ has around 23 more HP.
I say you stick with the insight. You'll be getting more HP with the CRZ, but you'll also be paying more for gas.
And if you get the 6-speed over the CVT, you'd might as well get a Civic. They both get the same MPG's but the Civic is more powerful.

[circa1986]

I think what Honda tried to do was bridge the gap between "fun" and "economy". They failed. The CRZ is truly a jack of all trades but a master of none!

My guess is people are truly looking for fun on a budget, they will avoid hybrids altogether. You would think the CRZ might appeal to young hippies who want to save the planet (like the ones in NorCal), but most of those people probably are against driving altogether.

[Jayemtee]

I'm going to take one for an extended test drive today. My current impressions are slightly favorable, but my chances of trading are still about 50/50.

Size is no problem. I'm single and don't haul stuff. I feel my Insight is just slightly underpowered and the CR-Z does bridge that shortcoming. I've driven both the 6-speed and CVT versions. Both have nice power and handling. I believe I read somewhere that the max power for the IMA and ICE are in different parts of the power band, so you can't just add the two together. I like the feel in the steering wheel and the seat comfort in the CR-Z over the Insight.

It is not without it's quirks. First, it doesn't have a center console/arrest. There is no back seat, but that area just looks goofy, as though they never finished designing that area. The nose of the car is so blunt and non-aerodynamic that it looks like it shouldn't belong to the rest of the wedge shaped car. The 6-speed gets worse gas mileage. Also in the goofy department, the CVT gear shift lever has P, R, N, D. There is no S mode. Perhaps that's the Sport mode in the 3 button power config set up.

What might swing me one way or the other is that I don't really care about looks much. The only way an Insight looks good is when it's next to a Prius. And the CR-Z is on the other extreme where it's looks appeal to a lot of people. My main concern is function. Driveability and comfort are much more important. Gas mileage is just below that. And in that realm, the challenge of utilizing the MID as a tool to achieve max MPG is really big in my book.

One other thing. I've had cops get behind me when I was slightly speeding on the Insight, and then back off and go away. I often wondered if they realized it was hybrid and I was just making the best of a downhill opportunity. From the back, the CR-Z doesn't look like a hybrid at all. It looks sporty. It has a very rounded back that reminds me of another small sports car….was it the Mitsubishi Eclipse? Anyway, if ever a cop backed off from my Insight with hybrid thoughts, I don't see that happening in the CR-Z.

I've got about 45 minutes of seat time in the CR-Z. I plan to get another 6-8 hours in the next 24 hours. Whether I buy the car or not, I'll provide some more experiences and answer any questions.

[Cobb]

I drove a cvt and the ac died on my 10 mile test drive one hot day. It just blew hot air. I thought I got acceptable mpg for a non modded car. I wanted to try a stick shift, but the dealer kept putting me off. Since I have invested in the phev kit, the i2 is a keeper.

I dont think the cops know what the hell I am driving. It looks like a prius with a big HONDA logo on the back.

[Jayemtee]

Well, I made a deal with the devil and did the trade. The deciding factor was me sitting in the seat and what I saw, what I felt, how I felt, etc. Drivability sold me. Here are my notes so far.

Honda Insight EX w/NAV vs CR-Z EX w/NAV (CVT tranny)

CR-Z Notes….I see this car as a Hybrid CRX, rather than a 2 seat Insight. It has power that the Insight is severely lacking. It has tight steering and better road feel. It has the shark fin style antenna. While there are a lot of differences from the drivers seat, it is very familiar. The engine compartment looks very familiar too. And for those who are confused on exactly who the target buyer might be, the answer is all of the above. For me it can be a gas saver, it can be a fun car, it can be a vacation car, it can be sports car, it can be a commuter, or it can haul the groceries. It can also be a teen car or a tuner car or your parents car. There are a lot of seniors buying this car.

It has pushbuttons for 3 power modes, Normal, Econ, and Sport. It normally defaults to Normal, but can be configured to default to Econ. Sport mode REQUIRES the use of paddle shifters to run up through the gears. This can be tricky in hard turns. The gear shift only has PRND. It does not have the S selection. I guess that was incorporated into the Sport push button. Sport mode also changes steering feel. AutoStop also works in Sport mode. It is interesting that the green halo for efficiency hangs around much longer in econ mode before it goes bluegreen. It almost never gets blue unless I'm trying to get it there. In normal mode, the computer isn't as generous on the green halo, although it seems more generous than the Insight.

So far, the IMA systems "seem" far superior. Perhaps it's due to the larger ICE, but everything is more smooth and charge/assist/regen seems to happen behind the scenes rather than an obvious feel of bogging down.

My mileage is down about 5-10 MPG, probably because I am experimenting. The MID calculations MIGHT be more accurate and the engine MIGHT get better with age…a la Insight.

The engine air filter is almost the same size but different than the insight and has index tab moved slightly. The CR-Z filter fits in the Insight a little loose and the Insight filter needs to be shoe horned into the CR-Z. This is only significant to me as I wanted to use my Insight K&N air filter on the CR-Z. And I did.

The round center gage is a tach with digital speed indicated in the center. This indicator is halo'd in blue or green to show efficiency, not unlike the Insight. In the Sport mode it is halo'd in red all the time. To the sides are digital bar graphs showing IMA battery state of charge and charge/assist bar on the left, and fuel quantity and instant MPG bar on the right. The lower left side has the idiot lights and the lower right side has most of what you would find on the center MID screen on the Insight. I was confused for a while as the MID page that shows where the power is going or coming from always showed the battery empty. The IMA battery state of charge is only indicated on the top left side of the panel, and not on the battery symbol in the MID.

The Storm Silver Metallic paint should look fine when Zaino'd because it looks good now.

Pros…
Superior Instrumentation, especially the MID.
4 wheel disc brakes
122 hp ICE
IMA software, the whole system works better than the '10 Insight.
Seat comfort is greatly improved
Sporty feel without being a sports car
HID headlights that are aimed properly
Auto headlights
Fog lights
P195/55 R16 tires
Heated outside mirrors
More nook and cranny storage areas.
Rear cargo light comes on when hatch is open
Door sill lighting
Horn is high pitched, but loud.

Cons...
Gas Mileage is advertised about 5 less. Only time will tell.
Hard to feather throttle to find that sweet spot for power but over 50 instant MPG.
Door opening is smaller. I bump my head getting in.
No center console/arm rest, but I have one on order
Small rear view mirror. There are options, but it is adequate as is.
Aft side window almost worthless

Strange…
The glove box has a vent from HVAC to keep cold drinks in the box cold.
Back non-seat area looks incomplete.
The big aggressive opening in the front is not open for air inlet. Much of it is solid black plastic.

I know this is an Insight forum, so I'm not gonna bore ya with details except in comparison. I really did like my Insight. It was hard to let it go. I think the bigger engine makes the IMA work smoother on cars this heavy. Maybe if the engine sizes were optional, a larger engine in the Insight or a smaller one in the CR-Z would be better for me.

[Cobb]

I am with you on the ima behavior, but the ride was what I thought the i2 should of had. The i2 has a somewhat sport ride.

I drove one of the first ones on the east coast and I didnt push it. From what I felt it was like driving on a cloud and the very first thing I would of done was get some sport springs and sway bars.

I dont remember exactly, but I believe it had more leg or knee room for the big n tall and I think the newer models come with a sub.

I am just shocked you didnt get the stick shift. There is a lot to the cvt behavior I do not like.

Cant wait til you turbo it.

My ultimate crz would be black, black body kit, everything tinted and blacked out but the H Honda logo. I would get a wing, 5% window tint, black wheels, tint all lamps, put on a fake hood scoupe. Then lower it so its 2 inches from the ground.

[cheesie]

i think i just bacame a hater of the crz
ill keep my I2 n still hope some performance parts will come out for it