I want my Insight back.

[Zwolfe]

In D.C. for a week, using a rental 2011 Chevy HHR.

Now I know the HHR and the Insight aren't in the same ballpark, but the cost is in the same ballpark if you remove the I2's NAVI option.

Holy crap, this thing sucks. The interior paneling is just ... built for a 3 year old and below. Seriously. The plastic is built so tough, that you can have probably around 10 different instances of accidents that result in a fatality - and the paneling will not even break.

Over the 6 hour drive to Washington the i4 155HP wonder engine in this thing gave us around 23MPG averaged or so.

There's noticeably more vibration at idle than in the I2, and the HHR has about 5k less miles than our I2.

I can barely bring myself to mention the radio, it's a flash-back to the 80's.

Perhaps all of GM's automobiles have a head unit like this? It screams ghetto (in today's age) and 80's simultaneously. I thought to myself, "Whoever designed the head unit in this thing needs to be beaten, but it was probably management at GM who wanted it like this, so ..."

The wife complained about acceleration uphill. Funny enough, with the I2 being the wuss on paper, she hasn't ever complained about its acceleration uphill. Perhaps the HHR is packing a terrible amount of additional weight which negates the additional HP versus the I2.

The transmission in the HHR which I did find acceptable just isn't a CVT. I'm a spoiled CVT user now. I can't go back. Automatics other than a CVT are ancient prehistoric technology, but manual gearboxes still have innate fun-factor which retains a place of its own in modern times. IMO, the I2's CVT covers up a whole lot of 1.3L i4 displacement woes because it keeps the engine in a sweet-spot as much as possible.

Here's a fun GM bonus. Mysterious smoke smell. Under prolonged periods of heavy acceleration (i.e. going uphill, the auto gearbox downshifts, RPM's rise), I smell smoke somewhere ... sort of like a tire burning type smell. Can't figure out where the hell it's coming from.

I thought we might get a KIA as a rental. I was happy we got the HHR. I didn't want to get "KIA on my hands," a play on Queen Latifa saying she didn't want to get 'Daewoo' on her hands. I forget the name of the movie, but it entertained me enough to remember that line.

I was in a new Hyundai recently. Now this new HHR rental. Interiors in neither have impressed me, and I wasn't impressed with the I2's interior initially as it lacked in overall quality found in my 95 Ody, 87 & 89 Accord's.

Well, after seeing what the hell automotive manufacturers are passing as 'acceptable' these days, I'm satisfied with what the I2 has inside of it.

The seats in the HHR are wonderful, too - not. After a couple hours my back began to hurt and blood circulation to my right leg began to be shut off. Honestly, I've never had blood circulation to my legs begin to shut down unless I've sat Indian style for a long time. This is due to the design of the seat itself, not seat positioning.

Wonderful America ingenuity at work, have to love it. Remember, buy American, you too can begin to lose sensation in your legs as if you were sitting Indian style simply from sitting in a seat without the additional effort.

I do support buy American, and it pisses me off that GM passes these seats off as acceptable. My wife who drove 13 hours non-stop aside from gasoline and restroom breaks in the I2 a few months back began to complain of discomfort after just 2 hours, too. GM has the technology to do wonderful things, but continues to shove out @#%! products despite so.

Probably the thing that caps off the entire HHR-experience is my wife seeing my face as I stared at the dashboard. "You've got to be @%#!'ing kidding me?" I communicated to her with my face when I looked over to her.

Unfortunately, the experience just worsened. Back-ache, loss of blood to a leg, mysterious smoke smells, invincible-plastic interior, head unit from the 80's, horrendous mileage, higher vibration at idle than the I2. Fun! Not.

What do I LIKE about the HHR? It looks like the paint is laid on thick from the factory. I like that. And it's probably some sort of optical illusion because I assume GM tried their best to skimp on that as well. The other thing I like is the A/C.

What does the HHR do better than the I2? Probably acceleration I figure if you hold the pedal to the floor and don't let up. But even this is negated because if both go flat-out on end for a long time, the HHR might catch fire and blow up.

I want my Insight back. And we get to drive the HHR back ... 6, dreadful, HHR-hours. I don't care if GM told me I get a free prostitute once a month if I purchased one, I wouldn't do it. (that's what I'm saying without having been offered and I'm sticking to it)

[circa1986]

I remember driving a Dodge Caliber a while back and the Insight reminds me of the experience, although the Insight does have a slightly better interior and ride quality, and a little bit less of a rental car vibe. I think the Insight's CVT is much more crude and herky jerky than the one I had in the Caliber, which is saying a lot. Insight has a less coarse engine, though. I also think the Insight is pretty quiet.

Speaking of the loss of blood to the leg, the Insight seats (I have a base model, as if it makes a difference) cause me more blood loss to the leg than any other car I've ever had. It's doubly bad because I don't have cruise control and can't put my feet flat when I'm cruising on the highway.

I have driven a lot of late model American cars, and I have found many of them to be much better than comparable Hondas. Add in the lower price point, and they are certainly much better than their Honda counterparts.

But then again, the Insight is good for what it is--a fuel efficient economy vehicle. And at the price I bought it for, it was hard to resist.

[Zwolfe]

If gasoline wasn't a concern you'd probably like the HHR more.

[mank]

Originally Posted by circa1986

I have driven a lot of late model American cars, and I have found many of them to be much better than comparable Hondas. Add in the lower price point, and they are certainly much better than their Honda counterparts.

I am going to have to disagree with you big time. I rent, on average, a car a month for business in various cities in the US. They generally can't compare to the quality and reliability of Hondas I have owned. At one point in time had 4 Hondas sitting in my driveway. Every one of those cars ended up with 150,000 miles or more on them. I have rented Lincolns, Cadillacs, Chrysler Jeep Compass, Dodge Advenger, Chevy Cruze, Toyota Corrollas, Ford Fusions, etc., etc., and Chrysler 300. The car I liked the best was the Chyrsler 300. In fact, my other car is a 2007 Chrysler 300 C. I only put about 3000 miles a year on my Chrysler so it will take years and years before I might see reliablitly problems with that vehicle. Not one of those other cars I rented seemed as solid as my Honda Accords or my old 1995 Honda Odyssey (it was the model that looked like a station wagon not a van). My Chrysler 300 C from day one has a rattle in the front dashboard that won't go away. The dealer can't find it either. The rattle shows up on rough roads. I really like the 300 C with the Hemi since it is super comfortable and has every option on it. But even with that car it has a rattle. My 1998 Honda CR-V that I gave to my son in the Air Force had 176,000 miles on it before he ever left for Texas from Pittsburgh had NO rattles. My point is Hondas are reliable solid vehicles that just run and run and run and run with little or NO problems.

[Zwolfe]

My 95 Ody has over 300k miles on it. They're nearly indestructible, granted they have a lower balancing shaft seal retainer. Some people have a problem with the oil filter o-ring, but I haven't yet.

I had to begin replacing wear and tear items on the Ody after 200k miles. Most of the cost is in labor, and since I replace everything myself it's just smarter to keep replacing the occasional wear and tear item when they inevitably do go.

My 89 Accord I bought for $500 bucks with 220k miles on the odometer. The alternator had went bad. Replaced it along the road where it sat, started it up and have driven it up to 296k miles without doing anything to it other than some tie rod ends and upper control arms which finally failed after 250k + miles.

That stuff doesn't include Honda-necessity items like timing belts + the water pump, those are a given interval requirement item unless you like bent valves in the head. (I love it that the Insight has a lifetime timing chain)

[waterdog]

I got an HHR for a rental car a few years ago, and it was among the worst cars I have ever driven. Chevy should be embarrassed to build/sell that car.

They clearly can do much better - witness the new Malibu (decent Accord knock-off, though less reliable and interior feels cheaper), their trucks, and of course the Vette.

[circa1986]

Originally Posted by Zwolfe

If gasoline wasn't a concern you'd probably like the HHR more.

Not necessarily, but I don't like it when people paint American cars with such a broad brush. If people painted Japanese all cars using the Insight as an example, well...

[circa1986]

Originally Posted by Zwolfe

My 95 Ody has over 300k miles on it. They're nearly indestructible, granted they have a lower balancing shaft seal retainer. Some people have a problem with the oil filter o-ring, but I haven't yet.

I had to begin replacing wear and tear items on the Ody after 200k miles. Most of the cost is in labor, and since I replace everything myself it's just smarter to keep replacing the occasional wear and tear item when they inevitably do go.

My 89 Accord I bought for $500 bucks with 220k miles on the odometer. The alternator had went bad. Replaced it along the road where it sat, started it up and have driven it up to 296k miles without doing anything to it other than some tie rod ends and upper control arms which finally failed after 250k + miles.

That stuff doesn't include Honda-necessity items like timing belts + the water pump, those are a given interval requirement item unless you like bent valves in the head. (I love it that the Insight has a lifetime timing chain)

Hah, my elderly parents have a 2000 Odyssey minivan with 120k miles. It got its second transmission at around 20k miles, and now it's on its third. All kinds of minor nagging electrical issues have crept up (no dash lights at night--and it's not a fuse problem, etc.) and the battery seems to expire more frequently than in other cars. Their 2005 Accord V6 also has a problem with batteries dying after only a couple years. The Accord V6 has maybe 50k miles on it and it, too, is starting to shift rough! Also has the same interior lighting/electrical issues. Plus it has a horrible chattering in the power steering.

[circa1986]

Originally Posted by mank

I am going to have to disagree with you big time. I rent, on average, a car a month for business in various cities in the US. They generally can't compare to the quality and reliability of Hondas I have owned. At one point in time had 4 Hondas sitting in my driveway. Every one of those cars ended up with 150,000 miles or more on them.

...

My 1998 Honda CR-V that I gave to my son in the Air Force had 176,000 miles on it before he ever left for Texas from Pittsburgh had NO rattles. My point is Hondas are reliable solid vehicles that just run and run and run and run with little or NO problems.

Well what Hondas have you had? Anything from the last 2-3 years or so? In my opinion, the 2000s were really a high point for the Japanese brands. But recent offerings are really starting to look more low rent and certainly are not as good of a value as they once were.

The possible exception is the I2, which, until the tsunami could be had for an absolute bargain, even relative to other Hondas.

[Zwolfe]

Originally Posted by circa1986

In my opinion, the 2000s were really a high point for the Japanese brands.

I'd say the 80's and 90's were a higher point. Especially the 80's where the Japanese showed they could simply make a better car and sales volume opened the doors for Honda to begin opening plants in the USA.

Originally Posted by circa1986

Hah, my elderly parents have a 2000 Odyssey minivan with 120k miles. It got its second transmission at around 20k miles, and now it's on its third.

Ody's between 99 through 2004 (perhaps 2005?) suffered from Honda being unable to put out a transmission that could handle the V6.

My perfect Ody would be a 98 with its VTEC engine and a 95's bullet-proof transmission mated to it.

Honda doesn't have a good track record with transmissions paired with a V6. V6 Accords beginning in 1998 should have opened their eyes, but it didn't, as they too had unreliability problems.

Comptech releasing a supercharger for the 98-01 V6 Accords showed enthusiasts immediately that the transmissions simply weren't able to handle the extra power, and that Honda likely made the transmissions just for the stock rated power, and even that was suspect.

This carried over into newer Odyssey's which was amplified as beginning with the 99 model, ALL were V6 equipped. Honda didn't take note of what educated enthusiasts damn well knew.

If I had a V6-anything Honda I would be changing out the ATF ahead of maintenance scheduling. However, supposedly they have finally gotten around to strengthening the transmissions. They also replaced transmissions for free depending on mileage / age.

As for the power steering chatter and electrical crap, beats me. Could be anything. I've screwed the electrical system up in a 84 Accord once, but that was my own fault.

Originally Posted by circa1986

Not necessarily, but I don't like it when people paint American cars with such a broad brush. If people painted Japanese all cars using the Insight as an example, well...

You seem to rate cars as what is it going to do for me today, I like some other people rate a car as what it's likely to do for me tomorrow. Especially if you're going to trade a car in before the warranty is over, I entirely understand if a person focuses on what a car is going to do for me today.

These are two distinct user-groups. Example, well-to-do person CAN buy a Ferrari simply because they have the funds to do so. So, the one person does. However, another person with the same financial situation chooses not to do so because, hypothetically, the Ferrari breaks down 2 times between oil changes (actual cases of it, but whatever).

Correct me if I'm wrong, I'm figuring you're the first person.

So, the reliability-conscious person decides to buy a Porsche 911 Turbo or a Lamborghini Gallardo, commonly known as having better reliability than anything Ferrari makes and to this person is what makes it a better car ... so they buy the better car, even if it doesn't have the prancing horse logo or the rapturous exhaust note of the Ferrari (which is one reason in itself why some people buy a Ferrari).

Reliability of American cars just don't compete with Japanese cars on average. Show me some statistics and I'll believe differently. I'm just basing my assumption on eyewitness accounts and conversations with a lot of mechanics, not to mention all the recalls I see in the media world. Latest one: Ford recalls over a million of their trucks because they can potentially explode.

Hell, at least in a runaway Toyota you got a shot at finding one of those runaway truckers strips along the interstate.

Fun fact: In 2009, Consumer Reports said original Insight, made in Japan and easily distinguished by it's J-VIN, is the world's most reliable car.

Side note, 95-98 Ody's have J-VIN's too, ultra-damned-reliable, also. I chose the I2 partly due to having a J-VIN.

Ford is doing well nonetheless today. Their automobiles are looking better also after heavily copying their Japanese counterparts, too. Hell, some don't even look American anymore. They're getting good at building a reliable engine, also. Part of me wonders how much help their Mazda comrades provided assistance, too bad that will never be known. As an American I'm proud they didn't take the bailout a couple years back, and for that alone, if I were to buy domestic, likely it would be a Ford.

However, even Ford is aware that the general public scrutinizes reliability of American engines. So, they do things like track their F-150's through the Baja and tear down engines in Detroit in front of the public to try and persuade their butts off that they really don't suck and that everything to that point was a fluke.

It sucks you don't seem to like your Insight. You seem to tolerate it. That's lame. The VIN even begins with a J - a lot of Honda owners would take a J-VIN Honda over one that doesn't have it because you don't have disgruntled pissed off people building it which that alone reduces issues that can creep in on the assembly line.

Not to say Americans walk around pissed off on the job all the time, I'm suggesting ounce for ounce that the Japanese are doing their best more often than not to impress their superiors and to build a reputation for themselves as their society is very different than here (see: no looting post-tsunami, completely different culture).

The funny thing is I didn't even say American cars sucked. I'm sure there's some I'd like to own to and over 300k miles. Just let me think it through, because I'm drawing a blank.

I'd be perfectly cool if Nissan, Toyota, or Honda dropped any of their new automobiles on my front lawn and I HAD to drive it for a month.

I can't say the same about domestics. The HHR as an example, I'd bill Chevy for the month for it taking up space.