What's more important to you - MPG or the Environment?

[Artric]

So I'm curious - which do you care about more? Which is the primary reason that you bought the Insight (of the two) and which is just considered a bonus?

For me, I have to be realistic and say that the MPG drew me in and the GREEN aspect was a nice bonus. How about you?

[joecvt]

Perhaps three or four options should be in the poll. One that indicates a combination of both MPG and the environment. The other option would be the want or need to shift gears or not (Automatic variable ratio vs manual transmission). The gen 1 CVT is the best gasoline engine high mileage / SULEV vehicle that could be purchased in the US and nothing beats it even today. The gen 1 MT is the highest MPG gasoline engine car sold that was sold in the US and nothing today beats it.

The new vehicles coming out like the chevy volt trying to claim over 200MPG are not realistic because that MPG is not substainable. That would be like me saying that my CVT gets 150 MPG if I start out on a 5 mile downhill and I only need to travel 6 or 7 miles.

I agree that the EPA ratings are not for everyone. That is why they say your mileage may vary. But there will be problems if the EPA gives that Chevy Volt a high rating like that, There should be a different catagory for those types of cars with two ratings, one for short trips using only battery and average distance available for that type of travel. Another rating for the MPG for when the gasoline engine provides the power (for extended travel).

Anyway.....My mind wandered off a bit

I bought my CVT because of the high MPG numbers and variable ratio transmission and friendly environment so it wasn't just one factor. I knew when buying my CVT that the MT model had higher MPG but I didn't care about the extra MPG given that I would have to shift more often compared to other manual transmission cars with more powerful engines.

I am amazed at how well the MT does in MPG and sometimes wish that my CVT can do the same in MPG on long highway trips. But when I look at my CVT mileage, I am amazed at how well it does compared to every other car out there (except one MT Insight model) and I am completely happy with the CVT given the other benefits it provides.

So I guess I'm trying to say that it is not an either or one or the other type poll for me. There are other cars that are rated at SULEV out there that seat four people and get much less MPG but I did not want those cars just because of the SULEV rating.

JoeCVT = Just your average CVT owner

[MN Driver]

It's all about the MPG for me. If I didn't care about the MPG rating, I wouldn't have bought the 2000 Insight and would have stuck with my 1995 Prizm until it didn't run anymore. I still have both cars and it's a shared car and gets driven at least once a week by me or someone else so it's getting used too, which is nice for when I need people room or a trunk/space. I drive across the country as I like to drive instead of taking a plane and it's cheaper to do this with a car, especially when I bring an extra person along and split the cost. It's mostly a cost of ownership thing, I bought this car and plan to drive it as long as I possibly can until it doesn't run anymore and if I can fix it, I plan to. It's what I'd like to do for every car that I own. The only thing that might make me sell this car is a suitable electric car at a good used price but until then I'll hang on to this one tightly. I might even just keep two cars because it would be difficult to give this one up. ...I'm looking in the direction of the Volt because it's got 4 seats, which it's nice having a trunk and 4 seats, 80% of the miles I drive I can run off of electric, that 20% is mostly cross country trips of which I wouldn't mind ~50MPG since the rest of my driving would be electric. 99% of my driving where I don't leave the state would be within a 40 mile round trip.

The environment gets some benefit but it's nothing I focus on. I like to use less as I'm a conservationist and am more concerned about what's left over after we harvest things from the ground. The biggest issue that I have though, is that we are buying crude oil from nations that absolutely hate their customers(i.e. think war). I prefer to vote with my wallet and although I'm still using the product of countries that despise us, I try to purchase the least I possibly can. I'd much rather pay transportation costs through my electric bill than fund foreign countries that I'd rather not have a consumer relationship with. Some day I'll be able to afford the initial cost toward that goal.

[Jeff Holt]

MPG...as I spray AquaNet into the air, but my Insight balances it all out.

[Ehetleos]

MPG only...We add our little something to the "environment salvage" (somewhat lower emiisions) but on the other hand not many of us (me included) think of our IMA batteries.
Our batteries alone put an extra pressure on the environment...and, concerning Europe at least, there are only 3-4 places "around" that deal with them. Sometimes I sit back and think of all that diesel that has been burned in order for me to enjoy the better MPG and panic! Matterials mined, gathered, shipped to Japan, assembled, hybrid cars shipped to Europe, battery dies after 10 years, shipped to big city centre, loaded on trains or trucks and shipped to Germany or France to recycle...nightmare!
The truth is that the positive environmental footprint is small, if any.
But I bought it for better MPG as I travell a lot due to my job...
And I love the way she looks above all.

[MN Driver]

Originally Posted by Ehetleos

Sometimes I sit back and think of all that diesel that has been burned in order for me to enjoy the better MPG and panic! Matterials mined, gathered, shipped to Japan, assembled, hybrid cars shipped to Europe, battery dies after 10 years, shipped to big city centre, loaded on trains or trucks and shipped to Germany or France to recycle...nightmare!

The actual batteries in the 1st Gen weighs about 65 pounds, the batteries in the 2nd Gen are probably 45-50(84 cells versus 120 cells). I have a hard time thinking that the material mining is all that much, shipping 65 pounds is less than the amount saved on buying this car versus a size up. I've read that the amount of nickel used in the steel of a normal car is far more than what is in the batteries, the Gen 1 is aluminum.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, I really don't think the batteries themselves have that large of an impact that some people suggest they might be. To add to this, with the battery repair efforts in place by companies like Hybrid-Battery-Repair, these cars can have new life and I think the average bad battery module count is probably 1/4(I'm sure he could share his thoughts) so this helps a bit too as it is more cells that can be used and less that have to go through the recycling process. Another note: With the lowering cost of Lithium battery production and improved battery energy and power density, there will be less space and weight taken up by the battery in the future once the automakers decide to use the technology.

[joecvt]

Also, take into consideration the long life of the first generation body opposed to a steel body that will rust over time. I had to basically throw away an Acura Integra due to rust where the front suspension would attach and would not pass inspection. The engine only had about 110K and was in great shape. Even nearly all of the car was in great shape except underneath the body (rust).....It was such a shame to destroy that car before its time just due to rust in one area.

As for the batteries, besides auto stop advantages, I really don't see much need for the battery most of the time. Mine rarely goes below 2 bars from the top unless I am driving in mountainous areas. In those areas, the engine RPM could make up for the lack of batteries if need be. I wish someone would just make a car that can do autostop, aid in initial acceleration and regen during braking just by using capacitors instead of batteries. The power Ah required would not be as great and we wouldn't have to worry about battery life.

The CVT engine (with slightly less power compared to the MT) attached to a CVT transmission seems to have no problem going up hills with engine power alone just with increased RPM.

I think that it was the need to make the Insight a bit faster in acceleration that required the more powerful battery pack so it would not be compared to the typical slow car like Geo Metro or old VW bug. But that is our attitude about those cars that make automakers add more performance when we really don't need all of that horsepower to move along in most conditions. (I know someone would want to chime on saying something about dangerous conditions merging onto the highway so that is why I said most conditions.)

That being said, I like having the CVT model with great gas mileage (second best), ease of use, better emissions category (SULEV vs ULEV) and I'm not even a Liberal (even though there is nothing wrong with being one)

JoeCVT = Just your average CVT owner

[thedhgroup]

Originally Posted by MN Driver

It's all about the MPG for me.

MN Driver, I wonder if you are my twin brother I never knew. I probably would have written the same exact thing (if I had an Insight I - I'm still looking). So since I don't have one yet, the reason I want one is the fact I drive about 80 to 100 miles a day and I own my own business. I'm looking to get my overhead lower by increasing my MPG. I checked with my insurance company and to add an Insight I to my plan would only cost me $89 a year for liability only! The fuel savings would be nearly $800 a year better than what I am driving now. What I am driving now is starting to look like it will go to the junk heap within a year and I cannot afford a new one. At the moment it all comes down to health insurance. My premium jumped $200 from $400 to $600 a month a few months back and it will probably go up again next year. If this happens, I might just have to buy a 92 civic and call it good.

[Insight69]

Obviously to most here in the forum, both are very important. However for me, the most important aspect for buying the first and second generation Insights are MILEAGE. I really like the 2010 Prius, but I was able to buy a loaded 2010 Insight, with several dealer options, for half the price! Insight all the way for me!!! I just convinced my cousin to buy a first gen to save some green. The fuel prices will only increase as time goes on. I had two people to laugh at my first gen, but I have the last laugh because I know I am ahead of the efficiency curve!

Mike

[satchel]

The question is kind of a moot point in that the mpg advantages are directly related to the environmental advantages, that is burning less fuel saves gas and pollutes less. That being said, I'm not jumping to replace my catalytic converter just because I occasionally get 1420 and 0420 codes, at least not till there are runnability problems, so I guess you could say MPG is more important to me.