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Old 10-31-2010, 02:48 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Messerschmitt Kabinenroller

I think this is probably the only car ever sold in the US that used less gasoline than a Honda Insight. It is sort of like a gas powered Corbin Sparrow, but better designed. Kabinenroller translates as enclosed motor scooter.
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Old 10-31-2010, 11:33 AM   #2 (permalink)
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I've heard the Honda N600 gets 80mpg at slow speeds but loses out quickly due to aero load and high RPM quickly.

What does the Messerschmitt get for MPG? I can't imagine it would do better on the highway. It sounds like a 2-stroke which would reduce its fuel economy. Could it compete for MPG at 60mph on the highway where the Insight gets 80mpg or better on the flat at constant speed? It wins the frontal area game for sure, but can it handle aero and still produce efficient engine output at speed?
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Old 10-31-2010, 01:55 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I don't believe the Messerschmitt is capable of 60mph.
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Old 10-31-2010, 02:14 PM   #4 (permalink)
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It was designed by an aircraft engineer named Fitz Fend. He had no computer and probably no wind tunnel, but a lot of experience and understanding of aerodynamics. (The Germans had lead in aerodynamics and fluid dynamics generally up to that time.) Germany was prohibited by the Allys from building aircraft or doing basic research at that time, so there was lots of time and some facilities to design and build it. The passenger sits behind the driver, like a motor scooter or some light and high performance airplanes. This not only reduces frontal area, it also allows the body to slope smaller at the rear substantially in the short space available. Notice the Kamm type nearly flat rear, long before it became popular in cars, and the fenders partly sloping into the body.
It went around 60 mph with a one cylinder two stroke 191 cc 10 ps motor cycle engine. It is listed one place as 4 liters per hundred kilometers = 70.6 mpg. Depending on what exactly that meant, it might not be quite as good as an original Insight, so I am no longer sure of the statement I made above. I agree that the motor efficiency could not have been good. It would clearly do much better with any sort of modern power source.
It was the main highway micro-car, while the BMW (and Iso) Isetta was the main city micro car.
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Old 10-31-2010, 02:39 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I saw one on the freeway between Germany and the Netherlands going around 60 mph, and I worked with a German who had had a used one and driven it from Germany to Sweden.
The number I have for the wight is 240 kg = 529 lb. empty, even though it had a steel body. Remember, no passive safety standards and only minimal comfort required.
When prosperity returned to Germany, they tried to make a sports car out of it by adding another wheel and another cylinder. Apparently it cost about as much as an Austin Healey Sprite. With a 90 mph top speed, and probably the ability to cruse reliably full out, as two stokes usually could and small four strokes usually couldn't, it clearly had advantages, but my guess is that the for and aft seating was not popular with sports car buyers.
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Old 10-31-2010, 04:12 PM   #6 (permalink)
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For anyone interested:

The Bruce Weiner Microcar Museum microcars, bmw isetta, messerschmitt, messerschmidt, kr200, micro cars

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Old 10-31-2010, 04:28 PM   #7 (permalink)
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I hate it when they call the smart a micro-car. The sports version had specifications similar to an original Insight, and the sedan weighs about as much as a Volkswagen Beetle, depending on the year. It is a small car or mini-car. I think the Fiat 500 was about on the border between a mini-car and a micro-car.
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Old 10-31-2010, 05:49 PM   #8 (permalink)
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I stand corrected -- I thought the Messerschmitt had a top speed somewhere around 50mph!
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Old 10-31-2010, 09:03 PM   #9 (permalink)
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I like very small cars. I saw the Messerschmitt at the Green Drive Expo(formally HybridFest) in Madison, WI this year along with an Isetta, an EV1, and various other cars including X-prize cars. I think the Messerscmitt with its lightweight and only needing a 191cc engine could do well with a small electric motor and a high density lithium pack in the passenger compartment. I think the same could be said for the Fiat 500 but I think I'd go with the Subaru 360 for a conversion like that with 900lbs/408kg and a modest frontal area and aerodynamics that don't look too terrible with seating for 4. Bigger for more batteries and enough space to where it could get enough batteries in with no hydraulics and almost nothing powered making it an easy conversion for anyone who knows how to replace the transmission with something else as the engine/trans were one integrated unit.

I couldn't imagine driving the Messerschmitt at 65mph for any extended period of time, not sure how well the engine could handle it, I know other 2-stroke engines like in small cars like those had a short period of time where they could operate at high speeds before you'd overheat and seize the air cooled engine.
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Old 11-01-2010, 01:03 AM   #10 (permalink)
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In general two strokes took more fussing but less major repair than similar four strokes. They generally could handle sustained high output better. The engine in the Messerschmitt had a bit less load than the same engine in a motorcycle, because of the lower air drag. On the other hand, its air flow was more restricted.
It is interesting to think of a car similar to the KR but made of carbon fiber and with a scaled down Insight power system. Let public transportation try to beat that for energy consumption! Also it would do much less damage to a pedestrian it hit than a heavy car does. For a car so small, the cost of the carbon fiber would not be a serious problem.
Incidentally, both Germans who had had cars of this sort told me that they were much better on snow and ice than conventional cars.
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