I currently own 1999 Honda Civic HX 5MT with VTEC-E economic car. It's a great 4 seat vehicle. I just now set a budget to save up to buy 1st generation Insight car. Just now joined here to fuel my passion to save save save and learn more about that car here.
I am also a member of CleanMPG, hypermiling to the finest. I am currently at 187.77% (63.8 mpg) of the new EPA (34 mpg) in division B and marathon competitions. Since I commute to work 21 miles each way, I think Honda Insight is a suitable car for me to use for that purpose.
I also live in hilly area and am wondering if anyone with Honda Insight live in hilly areas? I need to know how well Insight can handle the hills or STEEP bridges?
How fast do you need to go up these steep hills and bridges?
How long are the inclines?
Do you need to start on a very steep incline?
This car goes out to 70mph in 2nd gear for really steep stuff and there is quite a bit of grunt for the weight of this vehicle in 2nd gear. If you keep the engine above 3000 revs its got quite a bit of power, although I rarely ever need such a speed to maintain speed where I live since it is flat here. I've climbed the I-80 mountains heading toward the west coast where you climb past 10,000 feet elevation and haven't had to leave 3rd gear but I did let it lose a little speed.
With hills all over, you probably won't be able to hold 5th gear and your speed at the same. You need to raise the RPM out of the two overdrive gears and back into 3rd gear for steep stuff. If you've got a few light hills, 4th will usually do it.
You REALLY need to test drive this car though, you could end up very disappointed if you are expecting to stay in 5th gear and tackle hills at 60mph at 2000rpm with a 1 liter engine, it doesn't happen, you need to raise the revs to compensate for the displacement and pump the amount of air you need for the power required. You also really need to wire in a clutch switch too in order to disable assist to save the power in your pack for the moments you would prefer not to downshift or if you really need the power.
On the flat this car gets awesome MPG but the more you are accelerating with it instead of cruising or engine-off coasting(with pulse and glide), the easier it is for MPG to free-fall. I would still expect to get better gas mileage than the Civic but you need to experience the car. If you said North Dakota instead of MD I'd drive over and have you drive mine but you are a bit far away from me.
How fast do you need to go up these steep hills and bridges?
How long are the inclines?
Do you need to start on a very steep incline?
I would gather starting from 50mph then let it bleed to 40 mph with approximately 75 *LOD to keep mpg average as high as possible while climbing (about 1/2 of the combined EPA). The incline would be approximately less than 1/4 mile. I will already be running @ 50mph prior to the steep bridge.
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Originally Posted by MN Driver
This car goes out to 70mph in 2nd gear for really steep stuff and there is quite a bit of grunt for the weight of this vehicle in 2nd gear. If you keep the engine above 3000 revs its got quite a bit of power, although I rarely ever need such a speed to maintain speed where I live since it is flat here. I've climbed the I-80 mountains heading toward the west coast where you climb past 10,000 feet elevation and haven't had to leave 3rd gear but I did let it lose a little speed.
With hills all over, you probably won't be able to hold 5th gear and your speed at the same. You need to raise the RPM out of the two overdrive gears and back into 3rd gear for steep stuff. If you've got a few light hills, 4th will usually do it.
You REALLY need to test drive this car though, you could end up very disappointed if you are expecting to stay in 5th gear and tackle hills at 60mph at 2000rpm with a 1 liter engine, it doesn't happen, you need to raise the revs to compensate for the displacement and pump the amount of air you need for the power required. You also really need to wire in a clutch switch too in order to disable assist to save the power in your pack for the moments you would prefer not to downshift or if you really need the power.
I will take your advice, test drive that car before I buy it.
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Originally Posted by MN Driver
On the flat this car gets awesome MPG but the more you are accelerating with it instead of cruising or engine-off coasting(with pulse and glide), the easier it is for MPG to free-fall.
What is your average MPG per tank?
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Originally Posted by MN Driver
I would still expect to get better gas mileage than the Civic but you need to experience the car. If you said North Dakota instead of MD I'd drive over and have you drive mine but you are a bit far away from me.
Thanks for your generosity if I were close, appreciate it very much. I am sure there are other Insight owner near where I live, I might ask to check it out sometime.
*LOD, Engine Loading, This is a percentage of the maximum power available currently being generated. In some vehicles it is the maximum available at the present RPM.
would gather starting from 50mph then let it bleed to 40 mph with approximately 75 *LOD to keep mpg average as high as possible while climbing (about 1/2 of the combined EPA). The incline would be approximately less than 1/4 mile. I will already be running @ 50mph prior to the steep bridge.
75% LOD in 5th gear is about 80MPG on the Insight when in lean-burn. If that is what your Civic uses, try doing some math with your RPM and engine displacement and compare it to the engine speed you would need for a similar load with the Insight, remove a little bit of engine speed since the car is lighter. To compare, my other car is a 1.8 liter 2370 pound car and in 5th gear it has the same hill climbing ability as the 1900 pound Honda Insight does in 3rd gear. My other car has an oversized engine and runs faster than it needs to for cruising but its a big difference. At 75% load on that car its flying, but with an Insight 70% is 90MPG will maintain the low 50's MPH on a flat road with no wind and nothing else that might slow you down.
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What is your average MPG per tank?
It depends on the conditions and how I drive. Tire pressure is critically important, running at the stock pressures recommended by Honda is a surefire way to lose plenty of MPG. Wind has a huge affect on an aerodynamic car that otherwise gets some pretty extreme MPG. Cold weather robs MPG like nothing else.
I'll give you a few scenarios.
Today - Highway driving and pulse and glide in the city
60mph highway, I went 60mph, there was little traffic and I wasn't slowing anyone down. Climbing hills and maintaining between 70-100mpg depending on slope I sagged down to 50mph once but then a lean-burn purge came in and got me up to 55mph and a small downhill got me back to 60mph again. I got off the highway after driving for 20 miles and had 75mpg. I drove around downtown Minneapolis and parked somewhere and found out this place I was trying to go to was closed until 10am, it was 9am and I wasn't going to wait, I left the city and before getting on the highway, I actually raised the MPG to 76.1 with lots of pulse and very long glides to the stop signs since nobody was behind me at all the entire time. I got back to my home city with 74mpg and stopped at the grocery store, loaded the car with a bunch of groceries, drove home, unloaded the car and realized I needed to pay the city utility bill so I got all of the food put away and dropped off the envelope with the check at the gas station drop-box. I got home with about 73mpg.
Now, if the conditions were different, if I had grumpy drivers all over the road, it would be 60mpg into Minneapolis, 55mpg by the time I got out, probably close to 60mpg by the time I got home, and if I didn't pulse and glide to drop off the bill, I'd be in the high 50's. If there was a headwind, I'd be at the low 50's. If I didn't do what I could to hold lean-burn or used cruise control(aftermarket item), I'd probably be at 50mpg.
In the winter, I struggle and typically fail to reach 60mpg with snow tires, snow, nightly winter winds, and an engine that takes 10 miles to get to full temperature without the heat turned on and a piece of cardboard that covers the entire condenser. After 15 miles, the car is beginning to produce heat but I'm not warm when I get in to work. If I use the heat and skip lean-burn and stay warm, the car will do it handsomely but I'll be at 50mpg. I got low 30's MPG when we had 4 inches of snow and the car wouldn't keep up to speed in 5th gear on the highway in it.
It's all about the conditions, if you are a good hypermiler you'll get 60+ in flat territory, I have zero clue what you'd get on hills. I figure 50mpg with the technique you described but you'll be using 90% LOD or possibly using the sticky low LBN trick to keep it from going rich but still get an almost fully open throttle at 40MPG in 5th gear.
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Thanks for your generosity if I were close, appreciate it very much. I am sure there are other Insight owner near where I live, I might ask to check it out sometime.
There is a chance that someone on this site might see your post and send you a PM. I don't know of any MD insight drivers off hand though, but then again I don't keep much track outside of Minnesota.
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*LOD, Engine Loading, This is a percentage of the maximum power available currently being generated. In some vehicles it is the maximum available at the present RPM.
Yeah, I know all about it and use it quite a bit with my Scangauge II, many people on here don't though but I find it valuable for maintaining the most performance while in lean-burn or the most efficiency while accelerating. Above about 80% is about where you leave the most efficient zone for cruising or accelerating either out of lean-burn or in a lower gear. When driving at 75% load the car seems to glide along at 65mph or so and 70% can usually hold 60mph but this is with a close eye on tire pressure, calm air, and a flat road. Pegging my cars maximum lean-burn point for 630 miles I managed 73mpg, speeds of 70-75 mph for most of the way but I allowed speed to sag as low as 50mph going up hills. This is I90 though, it is very flat. During the same trip I had MPG as low as the bottom of the 30's carrying a bike on the back of the car, huge mistake but without the bike on the back and some hilly Wyoming with cruise control and I was at 55mpg per tank on the interstate for a few tanks.
Yeah, I know all about it and use it quite a bit with my Scangauge II, many people on here don't though but I find it valuable for maintaining the most performance while in lean-burn or the most efficiency while accelerating.
I, too, use Scangauge II on my 1999 Honda Civic HX, entitled "HypermilerX". That is how I got 63.4 MPG on my last tank with combined EPA of 34. I agree that it is VALUABLE. Right Lane Cruiser's current tank is 104.8mpg over 231.1mi as he is using Scangauge II as well.
I know his tank and I know how he drives his car too. He's actually driven my car and got the same 100+ short trip that he has benchmarked on his own with his car and to within a few MPG too and knowing exactly what his MPG would be at when he coasted down to a single digit MPH before hitting the stop sign. I'm not willing to drive the way that I would need to in order to get 100+ MPG for a tank and the rest of traffic will thank me(unless there is nobody behind me, then I do as I please, but most of the time that isn't the case). I've done it in a few instances just to do it when nobody was on the road but I won't be doing anything like that on a daily basis, because of that, I don't think I'll see a commuting tank over 80mpg.
My 1.8L Prizm/Corolla was EPA rated at 34mpg highway in 1995, not sure what the new adjusted number is but I've gotten tanks in the low and mid 40's before I got my Insight and knew how to hypermile the way I do now, I was raising the tire pressure, using very thin gear lube that was way underspec, pulse and glide, and coasting down to 30mph most of the time before using my brakes. It is a car that can't be plugged into a ScanGauge so monitoring trip to trip isn't easy so it was always tank to tank.
This is the whole reason of why I'm going electric, its such a pain to hypermile and so much easier and cheaper than even 100mpg to drive electric instead. Granted that even when running electric there is room for improvement but I won't care because trying to run under specific load levels to deal with the inefficiencies of internal combustion isn't worth it to me. In the mean time I'll struggle with getting 70+ mpg tanks. I'll still keep my Insight for long trips, I do drive about 20k miles a year and much of that is interstate travel cross country or in one case to Canada before a passport was required to drive back home so a gas powered Insight will always be in use for me since I travel alone almost always. The efficient lightweight, aero, and rust-free Insight makes it perfect for me to do a project like this, I just need the wokring body, batteries, motor, controller, and the rest of the parts and I've nearly got all the parts that I want to use worked out already.
My current tank is at 66.5mpg doing things that only 1 out of probably 10,000 drivers would even be willing to do, even if gas prices are $4/gallon and the person is driving an SUV and currently keeps their foot firmly planted approaching the light that just went red, just to slam on the brakes and wait while idling. Such a driver would likely get MPG in the 40's with this car.
The problem with trying to gain off of getting 63.4MPG with your current car is that you are already driving with load, the Insights engine size and gearing will duplicate the driving with load when you aren't even trying. There really isn't enough additional power left over to pulse and glide for any speed over about 35mph, anything higher and lean-burn does the job in 4th or 5th gear depending on travel speed and performance expectations. What I'm trying to say is that I don't think you'll go from getting 63.4mpg to getting 100mpg. Good luck though, if you do it, that's awesome.
Thanks for your suggestions and glad that you knew Right Lane Cruiser personally. Hypermiling is my whole new hobby, I'm sure it will be hard effort to get to 100+ miles per gallon, that is the reason why I would like to buy 2000 Honda Insight.
I will try that car on steep hills and see on how they fare before purchasing it. Your insight on the Insight provided valuable information to get started.
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Hi from Elkton, MD
