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Old 05-04-2017, 07:49 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Using paddle shifters to improve mpg.

I am a potential Honda hybrid owner. I have considered G1,G2 and also drove a 6 speed CRZ last night.

The CRZ was fun, but I'm not sure it will be the right car for me. For starters, it's geared too damn low to get really good hiway mileage and it kinda asks to be flogged, so that wouldn't result in very good mpg either.

Anyhoo, I drove a '10 EX last week and was quite impressed. It has one feature that I really like. It has an actual EV only mode that is quite clever. It deactivates ALL cylinders through the VTEC system to run EV only. This is not as efficient as other hybrid systems, but I think that it gives you the ability to get some really amazing numbers if you use the right strategy.

Part of this strategy would include coasting in this mode. And doing so at the lowest possible rpm would be most efficient. Having the paddle shifters gives you the ability to force it to a higher rpm than the cvt's computer would otherwise chose, or at least that is what I suspect. I am currently driving a Rogue rental. It is annoying as hell when the CVT computer decides that it needs to do some engine braking in situations where letting it run out at the highest possible "gear" would be preferred. I must hand it to Nissan though. This is a fairly large AWD CUV which will get into the mid 30s with just the slightest bit of effort to drive efficiently. The other day I managed about 38 indicated over a 50 mile stretch by coasting in neutral and just overall smart management of the throttle.

So, my question to you G2 EX hypermilers is do you use paddleshifters when hypermiling? I suspect that using them to force higher gears during coasting and maybe even force lower gears to extend EV only mode might help.
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Old 05-04-2017, 11:59 PM   #2 (permalink)
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The problem with the hypermilers is that they have not really embraced the 2nd gen Insight. And, if they did, being pathologically cheap, bought the base or LX models that did not come with paddle shifters. I personally have almost never have used them. Maybe someone who has will chime in.
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Old 05-05-2017, 06:36 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Yeah, pathologically cheap would be me, but when you are looking at 5-6 year old cars, the price difference in the models is more or less gone.

As for the hypermiling capabilities, I think the G2 deserves more respect than it gets. It does have that one feature the G1 doesn't, cylinder deactivation. I believe this feature, properly exploited in the right environment, could really put up some impressive numbers.

Increased battery capacity along with MIMA type controls would be kinda nice and should draw hypermiling nerds like flies to sheeeit.
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Old 05-05-2017, 09:50 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by egads View Post
The problem with the hypermilers is that they have not really embraced the 2nd gen Insight. And, if they did, being pathologically cheap, bought the base or LX models that did not come with paddle shifters. I personally have almost never have used them. Maybe someone who has will chime in.
Me arms are too short and I got the Elegance, which is kind of an European EX trim (it was a sharp deal though - couldn't turn it down in spite of it having too many goodies).

The Insight won't rev up if you decelerate. Instead, it will regen mildly at 1100 RPM or as low as the maxed out CVT allows for.
You can vary the level of regen by slightly applying the brake or gas pedal. You can even prolong the coasting by giving it enough of the right pedal to provide assist, effectively powering the car using EV mode.

I'm going to try and see how low the revs can go by deliberately shortshifting with the paddles in a low speed area in a few hours from now.
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Old 05-05-2017, 02:13 PM   #5 (permalink)
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So I tried the paddle shifters today again, first time in earnest for at least 3 years, to see what ratios it has and what it does when shortshifting at speeds lower than 35 mph.

Well, not much to be happy about. It will shift in D but if you are driving at a constant pace it will go back to maxed out mode within seconds.
In S it will hold the gear, but indeed even its top gear is still revving almost 20% higher than it does in D.

Then when I go slow it simply refuse to shift up if that would make the revs drop below 1200 RPM. It will blink the digit and fall back to a lower gear. In D it will blink and disengage, dropping the revs to 1100 as the gear indicator disappears.

All in all messing with the paddles seems an exercise in futility, and downright harmful to fuel consumption.
I can see how the 'fixed' ratios can help giving auditive feedback on speed changes, what you are missing in normal CVT mode. But here in the flatland there is little use for that, so I wonder if I will ever deliberately touch them again.

Paddle shifters do not improve mpg.
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Old 05-16-2017, 06:27 AM   #6 (permalink)
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I think the only opportunity for reducing fuel consumption with paddle shifters is you can sometimes induce engine braking / fuel cutoff going downhill or decelerating when the car would still run the engine if left to its own devices. This is more likely when the car is cold.

The paddle shifters are nice to have on winding roads in hilly areas but if you have a flat urban commute they don't add much.
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Old 05-17-2017, 09:03 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Test drive the hyundai ioniq
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Old 05-18-2017, 03:52 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Test drive the hyundai ioniq
The Ioniq has a DCT gearbox, so paddle shifters make more sense there as they select actual gears.
Hyundai Ioniq 6-speed DCT (Dual Clutch Transmission)

I hope it works for the Ioniq. Honda had no luck with its DCT gearbox in the new Fit Hybrid.
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Old 05-19-2017, 02:39 AM   #9 (permalink)
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I'm in a 2010 LX. I have the 3 software updates from Honda. The 2010 and 2011 has a less aerodynamic rear bumper than 2012+ models. The 2010 was EPA rated 41 MPG combined.

My record tank with the G2 is 53.34 MPG. That was with bad front tires; recently I got a tank at 53.09 MPG with Ecopias at 48 PSI on all 4 corners.

What I mean to say by this is that I bet I'll be able to do better than 53 if I were to religiously hypermile for a week and not do any Uber//Lyft driving.

############

I have only 2 modifications for Fuel Economy (FE):
- ScanGauge II -- I look at TPS
- Rear underbody panel

Tricks:
- Engine-On-Coast by throwing it into Neutral
- Put in Neutral at stop if it doesn't Auto-Stop for some reason.
-- This sometimes makes it go into Auto-Stop!!
-- Putting it into Drive won't take you out of Auto-Stop
- Don't use the EV mode, pop it out by slightly depressing the accelerator to 15+ TPS
- 16 TPS should let you do a 100+ MPG cruise at 37 MPH on a flat without using battery at 700 ft elevation
- 17 TPS should slowly accelerate you under the same conditions

############

Potential modification that might help with FE:
- Wire a brake switch somewhere

If you go into Auto-Stop (AS) while still rolling, the car will stay in AS until you release brake, or hit 0 MPH then accelerate. If you barely touch the brake you can almost let it roll freely, and it can accelerate, down a hill for example, but will still stay in AS. If you had a brake switch maybe you could just hold that down and then it wouldn't try to re-start on you.

Also, assuming you've got a brake switch, you could also do a fake VSS signal to the ECM (see link in my signature for one that works on a 5MT G1) to tell the car, "Oh I'm going nowhere, guess I can stay in Auto-Stop" and then you can really get rolling down a hill.

But this might be bad for the CVT in some situations? Someone who knows more about the CVT on this car should step in here. I haven't done either of these mods on the G2 yet.
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Last edited by Natalya; 05-19-2017 at 02:45 AM.
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