Not ONE single Insight is getting less than the EPA combined rating of 41 MPG (even my pathetic 41.9 MPG average - thanks to my vacation earlier this year) That is out of 19 cars, NOT ONE below 41 MPG!!
Now if we scan over to the 2010 Prii, there are 5 2010 Prii that are averaging less than the 50 MPG combined EPA rating out of 8 total cars!! And some of those are by significant margins. 3 of them are in the 47's and one is in the 45's.
All of this correlates with the actual driving test data from reputable automotive reviewers (i.e not consumer reports) when they compared the two cars.
This is statistically significant and it is the things that class-action lawsuits from Prius owners (or a lawsuit by Honda) are made of.
What could this strange phenomenon be attributed to???
Any ideas?
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Ok I'll shorten the list :
Current Vehicles:
2010 Insight
2007 Fit Sport MANUAL
2010 Honda NT700V Deauville
I think the EPA is going to have to review their testing process. When the world of autos only had combustion engines their comparison process works, in the world with hybrid systems, it doesn’t. Every system will have its own ‘sweet spots’ in the mix between combustion and electric. The numbers we are seeing at Fuelly are a real-world ‘full cycle’ numbers where the TRUE averages can show up. It would be interesting to see how the EPA numbers compare to other cars averages. One would expect/hope they would use running real-world averages as a feedback into their calculations.
This is statistically significant and it is the things that class-action lawsuits from Prius owners (or a lawsuit by Honda) are made of.
What could this strange phenomenon be attributed to???
Any ideas?
The EPA cycle mandates certain speeds, inclines, routes, etc. I do not think that that the EPA actually does the testing, but relies on others to test using the EPA criterion.
The EPA cycle mandates certain speeds, inclines, routes, etc. I do not think that that the EPA actually does the testing, but relies on others to test using the EPA criterion.
I've spent alot of time reviewing their testing technique. It does seem alot more harsh than my driving style, which explains why my numbers are almost always better than the EPA numbers.
I also saw where in most cases the manufacturer does the testing and occasionally the EPA will verify this testing.
What I am getting at though is that if you believe the numbers, you should expect the Prius to get 9 MPG better than the Insight on average. This is not the case, in fact it appears that reality is nowhere near close to that. Perhaps the methodology happens to favor the Prius (i.e. Toyota specifically designed the "sweet spots" in accordance with the testing criteria) but real world driving does not show this bias. Or perhaps there are more sinister explanations (Toyota artificially charged their battery to full capacity before the test??) Either way, IF I had purchased a Prius and I were not getting the 50 MPG average, I'd be quite angry.
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Ok I'll shorten the list :
Current Vehicles:
2010 Insight
2007 Fit Sport MANUAL
2010 Honda NT700V Deauville
Using all the Fuelly numbers available for the 2 cars, except for any 0 values, I find that the Insight has a mean Fuel economy of 47.2 mpg with a standard deviation of 4.6 mpg.
The Prius has a mean Fuel economy of 46.6 mpg, with a standard deviation of 6.7 mpg.
When performing a t-test against all entries at fuelly, there is not statistical significance between those two cars. That's a very bad mark for the Prius, and a very good one for the Indight.
Even counting all the 2009 Prii, the mean FE was 45.6 with a standard deviation of 6.4 mpg. That's not even statistically significant to the 2010. That means that you really should not see any measurable difference in the FE between 2009 and 2010 Prii.
There is statistical significance between the Insight I and the Insight II, which one would expect.
I would attribute it to the fact that since the Insight has a smaller ICE engine it will use less fuel at times of cruising or at higher speeds. Since the Prius has a bigger electric engine, it uses less fuel at times of acceleration. The EPA standards, and most car enthusiast magazines, use lead feet and hardly any crusing for long distances, therefore, favoring the Prius.
Using all the Fuelly numbers available for the 2 cars, except for any 0 values, I find that the Insight has a mean Fuel economy of 47.2 mpg with a standard deviation of 4.6 mpg.
The Prius has a mean Fuel economy of 46.6 mpg, with a standard deviation of 6.7 mpg.
When performing a t-test against all entries at fuelly, there is not statistical significance between those two cars. That's a very bad mark for the Prius, and a very good one for the Indight.
Even counting all the 2009 Prii, the mean FE was 45.6 with a standard deviation of 6.4 mpg. That's not even statistically significant to the 2010. That means that you really should not see any measurable difference in the FE between 2009 and 2010 Prii.
There is statistical significance between the Insight I and the Insight II, which one would expect.
I would attribute it to the fact that since the Insight has a smaller ICE engine it will use less fuel at times of cruising or at higher speeds. Since the Prius has a bigger electric engine, it uses less fuel at times of acceleration. The EPA standards, and most car enthusiast magazines, use lead feet and hardly any crusing for long distances, therefore, favoring the Prius.
Must be a statistician, or an engineer. Either way, a good summary and just what I was expecting. These cars are statistically identical in the mileage department when looking at real world data. And possibly just as disturbing is that the 2010 Prius is no better than the 2009 Prius. I'm really starting to think that a full investigation by the EPA might be in order here. I have never in my lifetime of driving had a vehicle that I do not easily get the EPA estimates (even before they made the tests more severe).
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Ok I'll shorten the list :
Current Vehicles:
2010 Insight
2007 Fit Sport MANUAL
2010 Honda NT700V Deauville
There are some little bits of gold amongst a pile of fluffy words in that EPA document. It was interesting to see their figure of a 20 degree cold start warmup taking 2.75x the fuel of a 70 degree start warmup. It all makes sense but I never figured it would be quite that much, I'm glad my commute is 15 miles.
I wonder what "normal" drivers are getting? Fuelly is likely to attract drivers already well aware of fuel economy, correct?
I just read this owner review by "Kay" on Edmunds and he/she is getting 29/32 mpg US. 2010 Honda Insight Consumer Review How do you get numbers like that??? On my worst days (econ off, aggressive driving) I get maybe 38mpg US. I can only guess (really) short trips...
I wonder what "normal" drivers are getting? Fuelly is likely to attract drivers already well aware of fuel economy, correct?
I just read this owner review by "Kay" on Edmunds and he/she is getting 29/32 mpg US. 2010 Honda Insight Consumer Review How do you get numbers like that??? On my worst days (econ off, aggressive driving) I get maybe 38mpg US. I can only guess (really) short trips...
JP
I read Kay's post and there are three possibilities:
1. Kay is lying (she works for Toyota maybe)
2. Kay is an IDIOT and her driving style proves it
3. There is something actually wrong with Kay's car (the IMA circuit breaker is popped??)
__________________
Ok I'll shorten the list :
Current Vehicles:
2010 Insight
2007 Fit Sport MANUAL
2010 Honda NT700V Deauville
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EPA Estimates 2010 Insight vs. 2010 Prius
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