hydrogen fuel injection?

[IamIan]

I was just wondering what people's thoughts were about this ?

I have found a few links about it including one company talks about it here.

http://www.chechfi.ca/index.html

my questions are :

1> isn't this far more complex than described?

2> how much more performance could be expected?

3> Of course.. can it be added to an insight?

4> what kind of range is the cost ... a few hundered... a few thousand.... tens of thousands...... 6 digits????

if doable it sounds like it could add 20 to 30 MPG to an insight putting its MPG easily into the 90 range even for us non-hyper milers....

I am thinking of MIMA for more manual control of electric this for better combustion .... alternative for better combustion is a propane conversion of the insight ... but propane conversion would lose power.....

any thoughts out there about the hydrogen fuel injection idea???

[james]

Sounds like the latest version of the 200 mpg carburetor

I see lots of testimonials, but no obvious links to information on how it's supposed to work. That's a red flag right there

[Foxpaw]

There is an explanation on the site of how it allegedly operates.

It seems to use electrolysis to generate hydrogen gas (uses approximately 150 watts) while driving, and injects this into the cylinders. The hydrogen allegedly improves the combustion and allows a leaner fuel mixture to be used.

The site claims to guarantee a 10% increase in fuel economy, which is interesting. If its guaranteed, the risk of trying it seems minimal.

[Insightful Trekker]

So what's the hydrogen fuel source, water

And if I remember my college chemistry correctly a 150w electrolysis system will only produce a minute amount of hydrogen (as a percentage of energy used in a truck moving down the highway).

Either way cold fusion is more energy efficent :P

[IamIan]

I found some more info ....

Turns out they aren't the only ones who have thought about doing this...

in 1977 DOE did a research study / report showing that ...

"Adding 5 % hydrogen to the gasoline provides 30 % to 40 % less NOx
emission. "

More Recently MIT found the same thing but also found that ....

"hydrogen-enhanced gasoline engines could eventually increase
the average efficiency of cars and other light-duty vehicles by 20 percent."

..... sooooo......

It seems that HFI from the link is aiming for the small % injects that lead the DOE to get 30 to 40% less Emmissions...... And they are claiming 10% increases in efficiency while MIT studies show 20% being possible.....

Sooooo This will cost in the thousands to tens of thousands since no mass production is done at all.... or lease it for hundereds per month.... for up to 40% further reduction in Insight Emmitions and 10% better MPG ....

So doable... but for that kind of money I will do a full Electric Conversion.

If costs came way down it might be the kind of thing a mass produced vehicle could see in it some day if MPG becomes more popular than HP or Speed and more popular than LARGE SUVs.... If the mass public fully embraces it then in the price range of sport cars you might see this techonolgy used..... but we all know the mass public isn't going to do that... and I mean ever.... Gas prices have more than doubled in the last 5 years.... and yet there are more people on the roads drivign less fuel effecient cars... like SUVs than ever.... In short as long as they can aford it they don't care.

[SVOboy]

Hydrogen fuel injection has also been talked about here: http://www.gassavers.org/node/123

Flatland knows a lot about it as he has done lots of research and is working on testing different electrolytes and all that for when he builds his own model. So if you're looking to get hold on something to actually do it, I'd get in contact with him.[/url]

[b1shmu63]

The MIT work is in regard to a device called the Plsmatron," The Plasma Fuel Reformer uses an electrical plasma (a strong, continuous “spark”) to combust partially a mixture of air and the vechicle’s hydrocarbon fuel -- diesel or gasoline. Because there is deliberately insufficient air to support combustion, the fuel dissociates to create a hydrogen-rich gas rather than burning. That hydrogen-rich gas can be used to improve or even enable the operation of other exhaust emission systems."

It does not seem to be related to the hydrogen electrolysis device mentioned.

[Aaron Cake]

I've seen this system firsthand. Seems to work well. They rely on a "custom designed" electrolyzer to provide the hydrogen. To me, it looked like a heater and a big 5V DC-DC converter. They claimed a 10-20% improvement on their demo truck, and based on their material I would believe a 10% is easy.

However, the Insight is not a typical ICE. It relies on very specific parameters (intake, combustion, ignition and fuel tuning) to achieve it's mileage. Introducing other elements may just break it...

[jl47]

hi,

http://www.hydrogen-boost.com has a ready to install kit, and it works.
They have a saturn killing the insight in normal mileage figures - over 100mpg (112 I think). It won some driving mileage contest, so it is legit. I think it wouldn't be suitable for the Honda as this car was very strictly engineered to run exactly the way it does, making rather large untested changes is better left to Honda. (I consider MIMA and superchargers small changes).

[Kobushi]

I'd like to try it, but at $750, that's a pricey gamble