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Old 03-20-2017, 02:04 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ecky View Post
The cruise control's response rate is adjustable. I have mine set to slow, which keeps my car in lean burn pretty well even with some mild inclines, but the moment there's much elevation change I really have to baby-sit it.
I take it the vehicle loses some speed with slight incline? Does it try to get back up to speed once you're over the incline?

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Originally Posted by Bull Dog View Post
Yes, the Rostra unit has four "Gain" or (Sensitivity to speed changes) modes. Extra Low, Low, Mid and High I have tried all of them and in my personal experience, the best and only mode worth using is the High Gain setting.
Does't that mean you will easily lose lean burn mode? Do you fiddle with it to get back to learn burn, or just leave it as is?

The vehicle does the NOX purge every mile or so that takes it out of lean burn. How does the cruise control handle this? Please don't tell me you have to manually reengage lean burn once per minute when using cruise control. That would be such a pain and make cruise control just kind of barely useful. Well, unless you just ignore lean burn. I suppose it's also possible for lean burn to eventually reengage, just a lot longer than what you can induce manually by letting go of gas during the NOX purge. This manual method can lose 1-2 mph that you can regain once back in lean burn mode.
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Last edited by esprout; 03-20-2017 at 02:06 AM.
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Old 03-20-2017, 06:49 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Lean burn is one of the biggest reasons I advocate setting the Rostra to high gain.

At the same percent throttle opening, the engine makes more power when not in lean burn. Thus, if you are cruising along in 5th gear at steady 65 MPH in lean burn and a NOX purge happens, you will start to speed up.

With the Rostra unit set to high gain, it will quickly pull the throttle back a tiny bit to keep your speed in check. When NOX purge ends, it will see your speed dropping and quickly reapply that small adjustment in throttle to compensate. Lean burn will continue unbroken.

Especially on Extra Low, and Low settings, I've seen my Rostra unit fail to react to a NOX purge until the car has gained +2-3 MPH over the set point until it finally reacts. Then the cruise controls then responds by closing the throttle more than it would on High...right about as the car transitions back into lean burn.

So now the car starts losing speed and the cruise will only start respond once car has dropped -3-5 MPH below the set point. Once it does respond, it responds by applying so much throttle you get pulled out of lean burn.

And lets be clear here, High gain isn't perfect. It can't predict the future or see the road ahead, but at least it reacts to the present moment in a timely fashion.

TLDR: In general, at the High gain setting, the Rostra makes small adjustments to the throttle. Lean burn is easier to maintain as a result. Lower gain settings, frequently result in a sluggish response that often results in big adjustments to throttle position, killing lean burn.
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Last edited by Bull Dog; 03-20-2017 at 11:28 AM.
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Old 03-20-2017, 11:10 AM   #13 (permalink)
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I concur with your observations with the Rostra cruise control gain setting at the two minimum settings. I've tried the two lower settings only. I'd set my unit's dip switches #1 & #2 to the 'OFF' position for minimum throttle gain. I'll reset 1&2 dip switches 'ON' to give Full Gain at try hopefully with better results, mostly on account of that fluctuating road speed noted.

[fwiw: The cruise control got little use after the first year of installation, even on now rare highway trips. Best FCD economy was attained manually with the right side of the right foot held steady planted against the transmission tunnel in an effort trying to maintain TPS less than '33' reading off the OBDIIC&C iirc. [Didn't go to resorts of using a strip of velcro attached to the sneakers to ease strain of maintaining the foot position but considered it.]]

My rationale for the setting of a weak gain for the throttle response, [counter to the suggestions of vendor Brandon Distributors vendors staff member Joe, a real good guy] , was that a lower 'deltaTPS' ['rate of change' of throttle position] would help to try and keep lean burn 'in' for longer duration. The results are though are as you say.
_______
The way I ran with Rostra to save the IMA, was to turn 'Off' IMA assist via a Mima button, or generally risk flattening the IMA in short order. This was the case especially in running through gusty weather conditions, or over rolling hills.
With any traffic following closely, with the occurrence of the purge cycle and speed fluctuations it could be unsafe. When cruise control was employed, most use was over long distances on secondary rural highways with little traffic normally.
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[Last I checked the vendor site a while back, [BD out of business: 11.16 sued by ROSTRA] they had a new unit for cruise control [non-Rostra] that has a _variable gain control knob_ [vs. 2 dip switches], on a box inside the vehicle to set a sweet spot for gain. I'd give strong consideration to such a newer unit if installing anew.]

Last edited by AbCaRed00; 03-20-2017 at 05:14 PM. Reason: dip switch photobucket link, right foot position;Rostra Suing BrandonDist
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Old 03-20-2017, 12:59 PM   #14 (permalink)
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I don't know how my Rostra is set, but it does kill lean burn. It tries to accelerate at the slightest grade and that's the end of it. CC wants to maintain constant speed, while lean burn wants constant throttle. I mainly use it only on very flat sections so I can wiggle my ankle. Or when I'm driving too fast for lean burn and have already given up on hypermiling. It's a great tool, but its thought process is counteractive to getting the best mileage.

Sam
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Old 03-20-2017, 12:59 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Thanks for the explanations.

How much is/was the Rasta cruise control system? It sounds like they've gone out of business now, and you'd have to obtain it via used market or just buying an insight with it already installed?
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Old 03-20-2017, 01:01 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rainsux View Post
I don't know how my Rostra is set, but it does kill lean burn. It tries to accelerate at the slightest grade and that's the end of it. CC wants to maintain constant speed, while lean burn wants constant throttle. I mainly use it only on very flat sections so I can wiggle my ankle. Or when I'm driving too fast for lean burn and have already given up on hypermiling. It's a great tool, but its thought process is counteractive to getting the best mileage.

Sam
That's a bit discouraging. I wonder if anyone has created a simple hack to just keep throttle open at wherever your foot is when you push the button. Sounds like something like that would work better for Insight.
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Old 03-20-2017, 01:21 PM   #17 (permalink)
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It's been done. Throttle Control Installed

Note that this does not disengage when you press the brake. Use at your own risk and prepare for a lawsuit if you cause an accident.

That said, I had one of these on an ancient motorhome and used it a lot.

Sam
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2000 Citrus
Custom Turbocharger System
MIMA #150
Genesis Charger and Discharger
BumbleBee Battery
OBDIIC&C Gauge
NM license plate KERS
(Kinetic Energy Recovery System)
Alpine Stereo
Scott's front and rear springs
GAZ rear shocks
2003 Lean Burn CVT (Wife's car)
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Old 03-20-2017, 01:24 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Ah OK, I thought about that, needing disengage switch on brake pedal.

I think there are a couple of "built-in" safety measures.

1. When driving for mileage, you tend to be the slowest person on freeway, and there's always increasing distance between you and the person in front of you. So should have plenty of time to disengage.

2. In a true emergency, you hit the brake hard enough the car will stall. You might flood engine with gas though.

But yeah, would be way better to have brake disengage trigger.

OMG see a mod in that thread using bicycle gear shifter for mechanically keeping throttle open. Cool and crazy at the same time...
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Last edited by esprout; 03-20-2017 at 01:30 PM.
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Old 03-20-2017, 02:13 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Sorry for the hijack of your thread, BullDog. This was supposed to be about YOUR car. OPs, if you want to talk about cruise control please start a different thread.

Sam
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2000 Citrus
Custom Turbocharger System
MIMA #150
Genesis Charger and Discharger
BumbleBee Battery
OBDIIC&C Gauge
NM license plate KERS
(Kinetic Energy Recovery System)
Alpine Stereo
Scott's front and rear springs
GAZ rear shocks
2003 Lean Burn CVT (Wife's car)
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Old 03-20-2017, 05:09 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Nice car and great photos. Good work Bull Dog.

Last edited by AbCaRed00; 03-20-2017 at 05:15 PM.
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