autoXray or PC scanner , advise needed!

[lesdit]

I need to get a code reader device, and would like to get some advice on a choice.
I definitely want to monitor O2 readings, as this seems key to the lean burn mode of the engine.
I am leaning towards a PC based ODB2 scanner, because they usually have extensive logging as well as
just displaying a virtual dashboard type of thing to look at live readings.

Are any of these markedly better in the case of the Insight ? Maybe more 'aware' of special codes or
IMA type status functions ? What do you use ?

Can autoXray's product log anything , for a non PC solution ?

-Les

[Mike Dabrowski 2000]

We did a comparison of several OBD scanners at one of the hybrid training classes. From what we found the Mastertec, and OTC genesys which are fairly expensive tools were able to read a lot of the performance related parameters correctly. The PC based tools like http://www.autoenginuity.com/ that we tested would display many of the parameters, but we found that the data could be totally bogus. One example, the HV battery voltage which we measured at 156V, showed 23V on the PC .
I finally just bought a cheap Actron scanner, which correctly reads and displays all the P codes, and read the other parameters with a scope or meter.

[Willie Williford]

If you are going to monitor the O2 sensors, then I would go with the Autoxray. I have had one mounted in my Insight for over 5 years and have been really satisfied with it. It will give you the voltage for the sensors and then you will be able to figure out the lean burn system.
The autoxray can only read one sensor at a time, which is sometimes annoying, but it does read the P codes correctly.

I am presently useing a "scangauge" and it is Ok but it doesn't read the sensors like the autoxray, but it will read and show 4 perimeters of the engine operation at the same time. I use coolant temp. Intake air temp, engine timeing, and % load on the engine. I have a seperate gauge for vacuum and boost (Which is my favorite gauge) and a gauge that measures the 12V battery action.

Lean burn used to be around .190V but after the ECU update came out it changed to around .280V.
Correct me if I'm wrong "Mike."

Willie

[lesdit]

thanks for the feedback on this guys.
I am surprised that the PC versions don't do a decent job.
On the one that reports IMA values wrong, is it only a scaling issue, or are the values not
even proportional at all with what a meter would read ?
-Les

[Mike Dabrowski 2000]

Don't misunderstand, the PC tools are pretty good, and for some cars work just fine. One just has to qualify that each of the reported signals is correct before you trust it, as a mis read signal looks a lot like a bad sensor, and can send you down an expensive and fruitless road when you replace an expensive sensor only to find that the new one reads the same bogus information.
The Mastertec tool gave then most information about the IMA, this photo shows all of the IMA parameters it was able to read on my car:
http://www.99mpg.com/Data/resources/dow ... n_data.jpg

[lesdit]

This ODB reader selection is tricky. From what I can tell, most all code readers will display all the Pxxxx errors , even if they
are labeled with incorrect text, which I can just look up in the FSM , right ?
Even cheap code readers now hold event 'frames' and can display live readings.
Is it the case that the live readings are kind of looked up by something akin to a memory location in the ODB
ECU, and as long as the code reader can see these locations, you can read the values ?
I'm seeing code readers for $59 on Ebay these days, no name brands.

[Mike Dabrowski 2000]

After exploring the possibility of getting an OTC genesys scanner ~$1800, I figured I would start with a $100 Actron scanner that I got from a local auto parts store. It correctly reads and can reset all the P codes, including the IMA related ones, and it can display O2, MAP, and other emission related parameters.
All that I need at the moment.
I have put up a listing of many of the P codes with the associated blink codes on my download page (near the bottom)
http://www.99mpg.com/resources/downloads/

[lesdit]

Mike, so any modern ODB2 scanner should be ok, none of the cheaper ones offer special IMA stuff anyways, I guess.
Thanks for the advise,
-Les

[gpsman1]

I just put a ScanGauge ( $139 - $169 depending on where you get it ) v3.15 in my Insight and it reads fuel cut.
I have not tried the O2 sensors yet, since I've had it under 24 hours!

It does correctly read and show 9999MPG or 0 l/km when the car is in fuel cut, which I'm finding is true any time your foot is off the gas, in gear, and the engine is over 1000 RPM.

Did you know the car is fuel cut ( and spark cut, etc. ) every time you press the clutch to shift too? (when rolling)
Interesting, but I guess in retrospect, every time you use the clutch pedal, the car does see that as a time of deceleration.

With a little trial and error with the settings, I'm getting the MPG on on the ScanGauge to read close to the built in one too. On one 10 mile trip that was 3 miles city, 4 miles hwy, 3 miles city, Trip B I reset on the dash was 78.2 MPG.
The ScanGauge trip meter was 77.8 MPG. Close enough for horseshoes and hand-grenades.

Another trip that had much more stop and go, and some idle time, was only 6.8 miles.
The Dash Trip B told me 55.8 MPG and SG said 60.x ( forgot the tenths ).
It is true that the SG does not correctly account for lean-burn.
However, by setting engine size to 0.8l vs. 1.0 you can get pretty close averages.
This makes the SG read over and under with about the same frequency.
Next week I'm going to do a 1000 mile road trip, and I will see if the 0.8l setting does well for all highway use.

-John

[gpsman1]

Originally Posted by lesdit

I need to get a code reader device, and would like to get some advice on a choice.
I definitely want to monitor O2 readings, as this seems key to the lean burn mode of the engine.
-Les

I just checked and the ScanGauge v3.15 ( current model shipping ) does monitor O2 readings just fine, and does indicate lean burn easily also. In my car I can both hear and feel changes in the engine while in lean burn. I can also see the MPG go way up also.

O2 Bank1 Sensor 1 reads 0.40 volts or less during lean burn.
O2 Bank1 Sensor 2 reads 0.00 volts and stays there during lean burn.

O2 Bank1 Sensor 1 reads 0.55 volts or more during regular burn.
O2 Bank1 Sensor 2 reads 0.90 volts and stays there during regular burn.

My car is in lean burn a surprisingly large % of the time, more than 75% I'd say ( when engine is warm ).
And also during a surprisingly wide amount of conditions, even when accelerating at 3/4 throttle!

During steady speed:
Monitoring the O2 sensors in my Ford, they switch with fast frequency,( ~0.45v switch point ) every few seconds the Ford switches from lean-rich-lean-rich. ( less than 0.45v = lean, more than 0.45v = rich )
The Insight stays lean for.... 1 minute? Then goes rich for only 5-10 seconds.
-John