Phev Insight

[gpsman1]

I like this idea... A LOT.

No word on how it is controlled.
Is it always full on or off? Or is there continuously variable assist?
how do you turn it on? Etc.

A nice joystick controller like MIMA would be nice!

[uhtrinity]

Conversion kit including:

* 2 Poulsen Hybrid motors.
* Auxiliary Components and cables
* 2 brushless DC motor controllers
* 72V 120Ah Deep Cycle Lead Acid battery pack (6 batteries).
* On-board charger, 72V, 10A.

Total $3,300


It looks like the controllers would have their own variable (I assume) motor control. Something like this most likely operate completely independent of any other system.

[Dgate]

I think these guys stand to make a lot of money from this idea as an easy add on to improve economy for the right cars.

If the motors are strong enough which I don't believe they are, the Insight could be made into a full EV as well.
Just remove everything up front,engine,gearbox,IMA,driveshafts,cooling sys,exhaust sys,fuel tank,plus everything in the rear.
Add chosen batteries distributed for balance,electrically driven A/C compressor from Prius and Brake vacuum booster plus controllers and wala a light wt aerodynamic EV with no complicated drive system.
There is no regen either (DC motors)?

DGate

[Mike Dabrowski 2000]

I posted about this on a different thread last week.
The unsprung weight of that motor hanging off the wheel would likely pop tires on the type of pot holes we have around here, especially with high tire pressure.
A close look at the drawings does not show that the trailing torque arm can also translate in and out, which will need to happen for this to work.
The 72V brushless controllers may be the Kelly controll units.
http://www.kellycontroller.com/mot/Brus ... oller.html
Definitely an interesting approach to powering the rear wheels.
Some one needs to buy this and try it out. I called the place, and when I asked about the system, I was transfered to the voice mail of the company president who never got back to me????

[IamIan]

The Poulsen wheel motors talk about "Added un-sprung weight, 38 lb per wheel" for 10 kW

If I were to go with a E-Wheel motor so far I like the PML more power per pound and they have regenerative braking.
There Hi-Pa wheel motor at 39pounds gives 40kW and 46pounds gives 80kW
http://www.pmlflightlink.com/motors/hipa_drive.html

or go lighter but loose the Regenerative braking in there DC wheel motors...
http://www.pmlflightlink.com/pdfs/eWheel.pdf

~2 HP per wheel for about ~9 pounds per wheel.... 4 of these would distribute the ~8HP and ~36 pounds over 4 wheels.

Although I still have my doubts about adding a bunch of unsprung weight ... and the durability of any motor in as harsh of an environment as a year round in wheel application.... that is the big issues for me... otherwise I love the idea of wheel motors.... maybe with the right suspension system it would work well.

[retepsnikrep]

More Lithium Choices.

Thundersky TSLCP-50ah cells (1.6kg) approx 45 cells reqd weight 72kg, take off nimh pack 22kg and means carrying around 50kg extra for a 50ah main pack.

Worth it? I know they are rugged and reliable and I have a basic BMS on the bench.

50kg call it 4% extra weight for vehicle. Projected mph hit due to weight, anyone care to guess?

Hopefully any weight penaly would be over compensated for by almost unlimited IMA use!

Kokam cells are vey nice, light and powerful but mega bucks Weight would be much less about 1kg each for a 40ah cell, again 45 reqd so that drops weight penalty down to about 25kg

[Mike Dabrowski 2000]

I have been riding around with 390 extra lbs, with it either being dead weight or live weight for almost two years.
I can get over 100MPG @65 with it live weight,(heavy PIMA use boost on) and maybe 65 MPG as dead weight over the same hilly course and speed.

[IamIan]

Originally Posted by retepsnikrep

50kg call it 4% extra weight for vehicle. Projected mph hit due to weight, anyone care to guess?

4% more weight will directly give 4% more rolling resistance at any speed.

I would expect between 5% and 6% hit to your MPG due to the extra weight.

But for as long as you have the extra Ah you have an extra 10kW IMA motor to offset far more than the weight effects.

With 50Ah cells you are suggesting... that is a good bit of assist over a significant period of time.

[retepsnikrep]

OK I've done it and ordered 50x40ah 3.2v li-fepo4 cells from a chinese supplier.

Hopefully be here in Uk in a month or so. I now have to work hard on the instalation which will be a replacement of the standard nimh pack. Cells weigh 1.3kg each, final installed number will be between 45-50 depending on V sag under load once tested and end of charge voltage limits.

45 cell pack li-fepo4 - nimh pack will mean an extra 38kg weight penalty but should give 10x the capacity of the standard pack.

Couple of questions/ideas.

I will use the BCM to monitor the pack temp by transfering the thermistors over from one of my spare IMA packs.

I would like to implement the PTC strips as well and wind that through the new pack to monitor individual cells just as it does in the nimh pack, I don't really want to remove the strip from my subpacks, so does anyone know a supplier for it? Thanks to 'Uhtrinity' for good work in this area in determining it's value and the circuit/system characteristics.

I will use/let the BCM monitor the overall pack voltage, but will use a potential divider resistor array to provide fake voltages to the 10 subpack monitoring circuits. So to the BCM the battery will appear to be perfectly balanced at all time, although the total voltage will vary as normal. My question is what current flows into those individual subpack monitors? What is the value of that resistance in each subpack monitor wire? Will a PD made up of normal 0.6w metal film resistors do the job?

I am using an analogue over/under V and balancing cell monitor circuit on each cell initially, with a picaxe master monitoring the pack and displaying amps/in/out voltage/ etc.

Basically when charging at base offboard charger will be controlled by analogue cell monitors, when on the move cell monitors will trigger an over V alarm dash light and sound when a cell goes over V, Human then backs off regen until it goes off!
Not rocket science. Ditto during assist under cell V will again trigger alarm/light and Human cut's back on assist.

Lot's to do now before cells arrive

Peter

[IamIan]

Originally Posted by retepsnikrep

OK I've done it and ordered 50x40ah 3.2v li-fepo4 cells from a chinese supplier.
Peter

yeagh!!! one more PHEV Insight soon to be on the road

looking forward to hearing all about your progress.

Sorry I can not help to answer your questions though.