Insight servicing

[dinther]

I hope I picked the correct forum for this.

Today I had my car in for servicing. It has a rather poor fuel economy and I am worried something is not right. Also since a few days it started to develop a shudder which indicates an issue with the CTV.

The technician (Can't call them mechanics anymore as the job is so involved these days) told me that Spark plugs, Fuel Filter and Air Filter need to be replaced and suggested that that will improve its efficiency a lot.

They also checked the brake systems. Took all the wheels off and gave the brakes a close inspection. There were no issues there but they did adjust all the brakes somewhat.

Engine oil and filter replaced. I asked about 0-20 oil that you guys seem to prefer but they had put in "Bulk Engine Oil Honda FEO" Which I was told is the off factory oil for the Insight.

I had the tyre type checked and the rear ones definitely are low resistance tyres but the front ones are unknown but they look identical.

They agreed the CVT has a slight bit of a shudder and they recommended to have the transmission fluid flushed ASAP and that this likely would resolve this issue.

So here's some questions:

1 Sparkplugs are really expensive (Part 12290-PHM-003 ) at roughly $236 USD Do they really improve fuel efficiency?
2 Fuel and air filter replacement. Again, does that really improve fuel efficiency?
3 What is the story with this oil. Is that the right kind of oil? or did they give me some average standard oil the happened to have?
4 What other key reason can there be for poor fuel economy (Assuming the driver is a mileage genius)
5 How likely is a CVT flush to resolve the shudder?

On the good news from the Battery re balancing seems to have worked. Until now the IMA charge and assist works fine. High levels of assist and charge are in fact provided but only if I really drive the car hard.

[IamIan]

Originally Posted by dinther

So here's some questions:

1 Sparkplugs are really expensive (Part 12290-PHM-003 ) at roughly $236 USD Do they really improve fuel efficiency?
2 Fuel and air filter replacement. Again, does that really improve fuel efficiency?
3 What is the story with this oil. Is that the right kind of oil? or did they give me some average standard oil the happened to have?
4 What other key reason can there be for poor fuel economy (Assuming the driver is a mileage genius)
5 How likely is a CVT flush to resolve the shudder?

On the good news from the Battery re balancing seems to have worked. Until now the IMA charge and assist works fine. High levels of assist and charge are in fact provided but only if I really drive the car hard.

1>Any car with bad spark plugs will suffer for it... The Insight uses 3 different and special spark plugs... even installed in the wrong order will lower MPG.

2> yes on any car.... depending on how bad they are will dictate how much improvement you see.

3> sounds like they gave you average standard oil they happened to have... The Insight will run on less efficient motor oils... but you are not reducing engine friction as much as you do with the OEM Honda recommended 0-W20.... it will not hurt the car just the MPG... until your next oil change when you can get the better & OEM Honda Oil.

4> The Driver is the biggest piece... do not under value the value of the driver... it can make the most impact on MPG... a bad MPG driver will get 40 MPG out of an Insight and blame the car.... give the same car to some of the Hypermiling MPG geniuses out there and the same car will consistently over the same roads yield over 80 MPG... That having been said... Tires would be the next piece of importance... proper OEM tire... there are other LRR tires... but the OEM Bridgestone Potenza RE92 165/65R14 is the best LRR tire you can buy for the Insight... then make sure to keep it fully inflated...

5> Depends on what was causing it.

Remember the battery re-balance treats the symptom but does not fix the problem that causes the batteries to get out of balance... so it is a patch and will restore some battery functionality and prolong battery service life... but it still does not address the root cause.... out of curiosity , what method did you use for re-balancing?

[fleming95]

Regarding the plugs, one of the correct P/Ns is 12290-PHM-A01, at least according to the online parts catalog from San Leandro Honda for US-spec cars. They're only about $16/each.

Keep in mind that the fuel filter is down at the fuel pump. I'd bet that it would be worthwhile to check the fuel pressure to confirm a clogged filter before dropping the tank.

Also, is your car really a 2000-year CVT?

[Insightful Trekker]

Originally Posted by fleming95

Keep in mind that the fuel filter is down at the fuel pump. I'd bet that it would be worthwhile to check the fuel pressure to confirm a clogged filter before dropping the tank.

I'd agree that there should be more significant symptoms with a clogged fuel filter.

But for an Insight;

#1) Its designed to be "life time" (generally replace only if fuel particulate type contamination has occured).
#2) Its accessable from the top.
#3) Each plug _may_ be one of 4 choices. The ground tang of the plug is indexed to +-45 deg. Indexing is an _old_ performance tuners trick.

HTH!

[dinther]

Thanks IamIan,

As for the oil, I am a bit annoyed and I think I will go back and insist they put the correct oil into the car. If you say the Insight OEM oil is 0-W20 then that is what I should have.

The driver is still learning. I am trying various drive styles. The main thing is that I try to avoid the brake as much as possible so that means a lot of coasting thus giving me lots of regen and usually almost full batteries all the time. I tried to drive constant rpm as well between 1500 and 2000 rpm that gives similar results though. Time will tell but I can at least cover the basics such as filters and plugs.

I have no idea what they did for re-balancing. The process took 10 days to complete as it involved very slow charge and discharge of individual cells. Also they said the actually replaced a cell. The company that dis this is http://www.thebatteryclinic.co.nz/ I hope the pack will hold but if not then I need to splash out and get a $3000 Honda replacement pack which I suspect is also a refurbished pack but one with warranty.

I am surprised about the cost difference fleming95. $16 is a big difference from the price I was quoted. But since the part code is different I am worried that either of us is looking at the wrong part. The code I got was from the Honda dealer.

It sounds like I need to go through with the filters and plugs and have them sorted.

As for the cars age I am as confused as you are. It is even worse. My car was sold new in Japan in 1999 as a CVT and imported to New Zealand in 2004. Yet there are not supposed to be any Insights in 1999! also I believe the first CVT models were introduced in 2002! Confusion reigns on my part as I am unsure what the real age of the vehicle is.

[dinther]

Hi Insightful Trekker can you elaborate on the sparkplug thing. What four choices? What is a tang? It sounds like I need to learn a thing or two about spark plugs. All I know is....they spark!

[Insightful Trekker]

From the IC Encyclopedia:

http://www.insightcentral.net/encyclope ... plugs.html

Commonly, most Insights are "B"'s
(and there's _nothing_ wrong with yours if its not)

HTH !

[dinther]

Why didn't I refer to the IC first. Thanks for reminding me. It shows that each spark plug is of a different type and that the type depends on how the thread is tapped into the cylinder head. I am assuming that not all three cylinders use the exact same sparkplug model so this means that the Honda Dealer failed to recognize this because they listed 3 x 12290-PHM-003
I think I need to get them to clarify this to me.

Unfortunately it is not possible to trust these guys at Honda because they have almost zero experience with Insights since they actually never sold one in New Zealand and secondly, this is New Zealand. Here people never do better than "good enough".

As part of the service they "washed" my car which was already clean and nicely waxed. Now it is a mess as they water blasted the wax off.

[Willie Williford]

All plugs will be the same. I don't recall of anyone indicating that different ones were used on any Insights.
All Hondas use the low friction oil now, so you probably have the right oil installed. Just make sure it is the right amount.

Willie

[The Citrus Smoothie]

Originally Posted by Willie Williford

All plugs will be the same.

Whoa! See link (again)

http://www.insightcentral.net/encyclope ... plugs.html