What would we like to know?

[retepsnikrep]

At a a dinner party a couple of days ago I met a very interesting chap who speaks japanese, travels to Honda Japan HQ on a regular basis and has some very close contacts in the Technical section at Honda HQ. We naturally discussed the cars/insight at some length. I said we had a few questions, he said he could ask someone at HQ on our behalf for a few answers. He seemed very keen to help, so I said I would try to come up with a list or perhaps half a dozen questions and he would feed them in to see if he could get a response. No guarantees whatsoever but he seemed very confident with his high level contacts

So the question is what do we need to know?

What systems/parts do we need a definative answer about.

Ideas on this thread please. After a week I'll pick half a dozen and forward them to him.

I think we need to ask very specific questions rather "Can you please explain how the BCM works" Of course that might work though

I'm not holding my breath but it seems sensible to explore every avenue.

[Mike Dabrowski 2000]

The big question for me:
I want to know why they don't offer a manual / user programmable IMA system with a PHEV/solar recharged larger lithium pack replacement as an option in all of their hybrids. It would be an easy engineering job for them, as they wrote the operating system.
You have a running prototype to show them.

They could incorporate it in their present hybrids and as a retrofit for earlier models.
If they want to beat toyota, they need to get out of the box.

[IamIan]

I would like to know the following:
( although this is a long shot at best )

#1>
What are the actual operational limitations ( technical details ) of the IMA motor?
( 10kW is published... but motors always have more technical details about them when a company buys , or builds them... especially to the engineers working on it / with it. )

#2>
What are the actual operational limitations ( technical details ) of the MDM?
( We know it does DC to AC 10kW Assist , and AC to DC 5 kW Regen... again there has to be more detail from building and buying companies / engineers. )

#3>
If emissions were not a concern, would there be a technical reason for the Insight's system not to operate in Lean burn 100% of the time ? If so what is it / details ?

#4>
What are the rolling resistance numbers / details abut the OEM tire?
We know the Cd and Aerodynamic stuff... but when they came up with the MPG number to publish... and when they were looking around at different tires... they had to at some point also get the coefficient of rolling resistance for the OEM tire the choose and likely also how that changes with temperature and such.

#5>
I don't suppose they have any spare copies of the source code / schematics for the BCM?
Like the ones they didn't want to keep around.. you know with coffee rings or something on them

#6>
What are the conversion efficiency numbers for the transmission?

[Insightful Trekker]

Geez Ian your asking for a LOT of propritary stuff there.

But as far as #3 goes there are no secrets. Just expand your understanding of the chemistry of combustion and the limits of physics. Emissions do play a part, but the bigger part is simply it can't be done (at least with a "conventional" engine). And when you do apply the "known fix", a direct injection gasoline engine (a'la diesel) the physics of a lean mix come into play, for one a VERY narrow power band which basically makes the engine unuseable in a conventional automotive powertrain.

Google it up if your interested.

HTH!

[Insightful Trekker]

Peter,

I guess I'd like to know if Honda has "abandon" we Insighters and our love for _passing_ the filling stations. i.e. is there any hope for a high MPG performance CR-Z Honda is VERY tight lipped about its R&D but just a ray of hope is all I'm asking for.

I'll be in the market again in 09-10. The Aptera was looking very interesting until some Detroit transplants hired in and started mucking about. (rear drive has been abandon, still I've not totally given up on them yet.) I do not want to take MPG steps backward. Whatever its called it has to be at _least_ as good as our Insight's MPG, preferably better

If it means my first non Honda vehicle in over 20 years then so be it.

[IamIan]

I full well expect many of those things if not all of them will get no answers at all... even if asked... if any answers come back from any of the questions.

So it is a long shot at best.... but I knew that going in.

But those would be some things I would want to know.

As for lean burn... I have looked into it from time to time... I'm no expert on it... Yes there are many limitations on lean burn... but I wouldn't mind knowing more technical details or Honda Engineer / Technician who worked on the car points of view about it ... especially the modeling they did that resulted in them choosing the amount and types of lean burn they use in the Insight... but the more I've learned about it the more amazing I think the Insight's lean burn function is.... it functions incredibly well ... over long periods of time ... only broken up by Cat purge cycles that seem to only be for the sake of emissions and have nothing to do with the engines ability to continue in lean burn... It doesn't over heat the engine as many other Lean Burns have ... it goes further at up to 25 to 1 ratios than most other lean burns do... it doesn't seem to overly wear engine parts with more 300,000 Mile Insight's every year... It takes the already low friction in the Insight's engine and reduces it another ~8% which is incredible all by itself... and the cherry on top of all of this... is that while in lean burn the Insight engine gets up to ~48% efficient ... of course there are still going to be losses from the engine to wheels and such... but that is a rather incredible number.... it is higher than many diesel engines on the road.... but as you said the Lean Burn Window is small and have many restrictions ... but I think it is one of many just plain amazing things that are done in the Insight-I that even ~8 years latter we still don't see some of these things being done better.

[bryankwalton]

We all know (or assume) that Honda tweaked almost every single thing they could (using late 1990s technology) to get the highest fuel economy numbers they could out of the production Insight. But is that really the case? So, to get the Insight from concept to production . . . what things, if any, did they get rid of which might have given the Insight even higher fuel economy numbers?

-Bryan

[Waynetc]

I'd like to know if the quantity of cars sold met Honda's expectations, or if they were completely surprised that the demand was not greater.
or..
given the use of Aluminum etc, was he car really brought to market only to trump the original prius?
or
Was it brought to market to help the entire Honda line ups avg fuel economy, which now needs a boost again (aka Insight II)?
or
Just a very costly initial marketing test?

I doubt if hybrid technology were put on the table for the first time today that a car that cost what 50K plus to get out the door, would ever leave the sketch phase...(then again there is the Fisker)

Oh and why no exiting colors for the Insight II? I know that IC has a thread where the II looks great in the brighter shades.

[budomove]

Originally Posted by Waynetc

I doubt if hybrid technology were put on the table for the first time today that a car that cost what 50K plus to get out the door, would ever leave the sketch phase...(then again there is the Fisker)

Wayne, You do pose some very good questions, but is this really true, that the insight (with R&D factored in) cost 50k, and that for its 22k sale price, they lost approximately 28k on each car?!

It has been discussed, but does anyone know the approximate Insight production cost increase with current aluminum prices vs. 1999 prices?

[retepsnikrep]

OK Thanks for all those thoughts. I'll try and draft half a dozen questions based on those and I'll let you know in due course.

If we get a sensible reply I will be amazed but you never know