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Old 12-06-2010, 09:29 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Roger Any update in this real cold weather. I had -19C here last night.

Thank god for rad block and hot air intake.
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Old 01-03-2011, 10:37 AM   #12 (permalink)
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It has stopped working! The pump still circulates but there is no heating. Hopefully it has just blown the "over temperature fuse" which is an internal wax thing that melts at a set temp and needs replacing once it has blown. I have a replacement, but it has been too damn cold to fiddle with coolant systems over the holiday, and just as it warmed up a bit I went away for a few days, so it is back to work tomorrow with it still broken.
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Last edited by Roger Crier; 01-03-2011 at 10:44 AM.
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Old 10-31-2012, 04:40 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Have you fixed it? What was wrong with it?

At their shop there are 3 types of engine preheater:
Typ B 55 deg C pump autoswitching
Typ C 80 deg C pump autoswitching
Typ P 80 deg C pump continuously running

pre-heater - Hot Frog engine pre-heater
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Old 10-31-2012, 02:22 PM   #14 (permalink)
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I'm a bit confused by this. Why do you have to turn the climate control knob up?

Surely that only controls the flow of water going into the heater matrix, not around the engine.
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Old 12-03-2012, 01:43 PM   #15 (permalink)
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As mentioned earlier, my hot frog has failed. The fault was worn out bearings in the integral water pump which caused it to fail now and then. With no water flow, the heater shut itself off each time it tried to turn itself on

Bugone :-The hot frog is positioned in the pipework that goes to the cars internal heater matrix, so for any flow to happen when the hot frog is powered up, you have to have the heater matrix control tap in the open position which you do by setting the climate control temperature knob to hottest setting before turning the ignition off.

By comparison to the elements I am using in my brewery, the hot frog is a gentle warming device! I have always fancied fitting something with a bit more ooomph to the Insight.

The Brewery has various 4.5 kW elements that have fluid pumped through the element enclosures. They heat up to whatever the setting is on the digital thermostat in the circuit, so that is full power until such time as it is turned off.....(see bubbles Paragraph)

A recent brewery addition is £5 pulse width modulation circuits ( PWM ) switching 40 amp solid state relays, (SSR's) which then power up each element.

This new system is awesome, and the upshot of this is that with the mere twist of a knob I can have the 4.5 kW element running at any power I like...If I set it so it is turned on for half a second and then off for the next half a second then on then off etc...this gives an average power of 2.25 KW or 50% power, with the knob giving the ability to run anywhere between about 2% power to 98% power!!!

I think I will fit one of these elements into one of my stainless steel enclosures and back it up with a decent coolant pump, then fit the whole sheebang into the insight over the next few weeks, which will give me something akin to a "Kenlowe" system, but with a bigger element. I will then set the PWM circuit to some sort of smallish power setting in the region of 20 to 30%. I will then fit a "Bubble catcher" as described later and crank it up in small increments to see what happens.....

So, before anyone tries to fit a 4.5 kW element into their home made systems, I think that the massive power input would generate bubbles on the element rod, and they in turn would be able to eventually form an airlock and cause coolant system failure. This has always worried me, but the workaround would be to fit an opaque enclosed tank of coolant connected to the coolant system above where the engine bleed nipple is located, and with the bleed nipple permanently open. Bubbles would then enter the tank periodically and stay out of harms way and you could check the tank level as required and re fill it just before the air bubbles have displaced all the tanks coolant.
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Old 02-04-2013, 04:24 PM   #16 (permalink)
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I fitted a Hotfrog preheater last weekend. It is a Type P with a motorised pump that is on continuously (when plugged in). A 1.2kW heating element heats to 80 deg C and then maintains that temperature (with a small hysteresis).

Hondas OEM pipes are not a tight fit over the hotfrog connectors so some reducer pipes with reduced diameter at one end were used to provide a firmer fit. To prevent bumps from shaking any of the pipes loose it is supported in the centre with a p-clip on a cable tie (not shown in pictures). The coolant was bleed after the fitment to get rid of air bubbles. A different style plug was used to allow easier connection - held on with cable ties.

A test of the hotfrog was conducted before it was fitted using a bucket, some tubes and 4L of water. It showed that the hotfrog needed 25 mins to heat the water from ~10 degrees to 80 degrees. Installed on the engine it takes around 90 minutes for this to happen (as it heats ~50 kg of aluminium as well as the engine coolant). The temperature rise is rapid initially and then slows - shown on graph.

It is plugged in at night on a timer to automatically turn on 90 mins before departure.

Pros:
The hotfrog allows leanburn the instant the car leaves the house and also the engine goes into auto-stop earlier. These benefits have the biggest benefit on mpg for short distances and when it is very cold. From the small amount of testing I saw an approximate benefit of 5 mpg improvement on an 8 mile trip during a mild winter day. The other benefits of a warmed up engine is less engine wear and warm air is available straight away. Also, it it fun.

Cons:
From a cost of electricity vs fuel saving I'm not sure there is any financial benefit! This becomes even less financially attractive when factoring in the initial cost. My real concern with the hotfrog is that a connector will leak and allow air into the coolant system. It will be monitored closely (thanks to OBDIIC&C)...
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Hotfrog test in bucket.jpg (21.7 KB, 23 views)
File Type: jpg Hotfrog on scales.jpg (18.9 KB, 24 views)
File Type: jpg Hotfrog Installed.jpg (21.8 KB, 24 views)
File Type: jpg Plug for Hotfrog.jpg (20.8 KB, 22 views)
File Type: jpg Hot frog heating test.jpg (18.4 KB, 19 views)
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Old 03-28-2013, 05:25 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Update:
The Hotfrog has been working well for almost 2 months now. I have noticed significant mpg increase for short range trips as the car is immediately at or very close to leanburn temperatures (77 deg C; 171 deg F). A good way of getting an indication (probably slightly optimistic*) of the benefits of preheating is to do a trip from cold noting the mpg and then redo the trip immediately (i.e. with a warmed up engine).

*as other things may also improve when driving.

I have purchased a timer and made a small engine insulating cover to prevent some of the heat buildup during electric heating from being lost. I keep the bonnet/hood up whilst charging so that it is obviously connected. This is to prevent driving off with it still connected. It is controlled by a timer that allows on & off times to be specified on individual days so that it can be customized for a week.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Hotfrog Timer.jpg (12.6 KB, 13 views)
File Type: jpg Hotfrog connected with thermal blanket.jpg (21.9 KB, 13 views)
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Old 04-10-2013, 12:42 PM   #18 (permalink)
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hey pascal, thats a neat looking install. I have started a new job with a 40minute each way commute the house i will live at has bills included so i'm kinda interested to see how much this system cost and the ease of install. am based in Manchester so not so far from you. do you think we could meet up some time for me to witness the install in person?

regards Andy
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Old 04-10-2013, 03:59 PM   #19 (permalink)
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p.m. sent to you
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