The problem with selling ready made HV grid chargers to people that don't understand electricity is that the likely hood that they will hear a buzz and get killed is pretty high.
Sorry I could not resist!
You still will have to install it.
This seems very contradictory. Building the charger isn't the hard part, thanks to your schematic(is 18g wire sufficient?) and the advice shared in this thread. Hooking it up to the proper points on the battery is what I understand to be the most difficult part of this and it's covered the least of all. From what I read following Ron's instructions to get the battery out is the only way to safely access the hook up points for permanent installation?
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Peter had nice instructions to connect his grid charger on his website, (don't have the link)
working on the battery packs side with the main switch off is pretty safe.
Once I get the prototype built, and source the connectors, I will put up some comprehensive install instructions, but for now, Peters instructions would be the best guide.
The problem with selling ready made HV grid chargers to people that don't understand electricity is that the likely hood that they will hear a buzz and get killed is pretty high.
Sorry I could not resist!
The published parts list and schematic is pretty clear for anyone that has the skill to install it.
I will be offering a dual rate grid charger that will let you condition the pack and do a more rapid overnight charge so you can do a limited PHEV by starting with a full pack each morning.
The same charger can charge the Insight 2 pack, or individual subpacks.
I hope to get the prototype finished this week.
You still will have to install it.
Mike,
What are the two different charge rates of the prototype?
What is the estimated time for when this will be for sale? Any idea what the cost will be?
1050MA then it drops to 350ma for the topping/balancing. MIMA Honda Insight Modified Integrated Motor Assist - MIMA Pack Whack and rebalancing the battery
It is called the universal dual rate grid charger.
The prototype has a red lexan front panel, and it is part way down the page.
The possible configurations are discussed in the blog.
The cost will depend on how it is constructed, and how many 48V supplies will be required.
If I had 20-50 units to build I would have a sheet metal shop make up a nice custom aluminum chassis with the mounting holes punched so the construction will go faster and be less costly than manually fabricating the chassis. Price may fall in the $400-$600 range, but don't hold me to that until I get a bit further along.
The chassis could be capable of mounting up to 4-48V supplies, and depending on the car it would be used for, 1-4 of the supplies would be used. I will have a voltage/current display on the unit, and will have a switchover voltage setpoint adjustment so the auto switch from 1A to 350ma can be set for any battery configuration.
With the subpack/cell tester project on the top of my list,and only one person working on things, I can't say when it would be available, hopefully by spring.
I am starting my Saturday workshops again, with the hopes of getting some help with the many projects on the list. http://99mpg.com/events/newevent2/
If anyone thinks you will want to buy one, send me an e-mail 99mpginsight@charter.net
And I will start a waiting list so I can better determine what quantity would be required, and have a better idea of cost and construction techniques required. The unit would come with the required internal connector and battery fan adapter so the connection to the pack would be to drill a hole for the connector, plug in the fan adapter, and connect to the pack with a spade lug(precharge resistor), and a ring terminal (negative top terminal). The internal wiring would be fuse protected right at the connection points, as well as fusing and diode isolation on the supply internal wiring.
A lamp timer (not supplied) could be used on the AC input to allow a timed shutdown if desired.
Anyone in my area that would like to come over and help with the projects, just send me an e-mail by the Friday before.
Just to make you all aware I recently ordered the parts to make a final 20 of the 350ma cc grid chargers/kits. Once they are gone I will not be getting any more as they distract me from my other Insight projects. Most will probably go to UK owners.
But you can have a kit and make it up yourself if you are quick.
Kit includes the four power supplies, enclosure, label, connectors, diodes etc cost is £150 inc delivery worldwide or i'll make one up for you for an extra £50.
I have supplied over 10 of the 350ma cc chargers so far and the results have all been very positive. They are simple devices and seem to give a useful improvemnent to poor IMA battery performance. The are not a universal panacea for every battery issue and you might still need Ron's service but they are def worth a try.
They come with no warranty whatsoever and are used at your own risk. A signed disclaimer is reqd before I will supply a kit.
Mike's newer charger will be the best option for those wanting a quick recharge time and phev function. His charger will supersede mine once it is finished and my supplies are exhausted.
The beauty of the single stage 350ma cc charger is that it can be forgotten once connected within reason and should not cause any serious damage to the batteries if it is accidentally left on for more than my recommended 16 hours or so.
PM me for further details or download my gridcharger docs from my website.
Dear Peter,
I know it is still early days for my use of the battery
charger - but to date I would rate it a great success. The initial charge
took a long time but the result has been that the "assist" mode (and the
"charge" mode) has been much more responsive than it has been for a long
time. A week after initial use of the charger I again plugged in - this
time the charge period was much shorter. The IMA system continues to be
much better than before. MPG figures are not too good at present, but
probably reflect cold weather/cold starts/ short journeys + my wife, who
uses the car most, always running to catch up with herself.
One feature of the charger that is mentioned in the
instuctions is the LED light. On my charger the light comes on after a
period of charging - but does not go off again, as the instructions say it
will.
Count me a very satisfied customer.
and another
Quote:
Peter
My CVT was doing a recal every 2-3 days and showing an IMA light which I would reset and all would be well for a couple of days again. I used the charger over a weekend for 16 hours. I don't think it completely rebalanced the batteries. However immediately the IMA was more lively. I had two further "recals" within 2 weeks, one positive and one negative.
All was well again for a few weeks after which it performed a positive one. I put the charger on again and this time the led indicated a completed process. Since then it has been performing as I would expect.
Several 300 mile weekend journeys and all seems very well. Last weekend I had another positive but that, I think is to be expected every couple of months or so since I mostly do shorter journeys since moving closer to work.
My view is that it has saved me a lot of money and/or effort by not replacing perfectly good but unbalanced battery piles. If the pack lasts another 40K or so I will be happy. After that I might be talking to you about replacing the batteries with an alternative of some sort and building a new battery pack.
I'm curious how many folks aren't bothering with Idle Relearns after installing a grid-based charger, especially with the references to positive recals.
I installed a simple 200V LCD voltmeter between the console and the dash (next to a ScanGauge II), and I've had to do two Idle Relearns so far (with lots of Assist use in between of course) to get the settled pack voltage down close to where I remember it originally being with an indicated full (relative) SOC (about 158V originally, now getting it down from about 164V). The grid-based charger easily takes the pack beyond the BCM's expected 70 or 75% (for new replacement BCMs, 80% for original) SOC, so when a topped-off, presumed newly-balanced pack sees an Idle Relearn the BCM might assume it's of course at max expected SOC, not 100%, and so once down to 3 bars indicated SOC the pack is nowhere near the (I think) 35% absolute SOC (20% with the original BCM).
I understand you can't go only by pack voltage for absolute SOC determination, regardless of however many hours it's had to settle, but pack voltage is related to absolute SOC (once it has settled at least).
I've found that when pushed the car can stay seemingly forever at 3 bars indicated SOC before shutting off any further Assist, possibly from the BCM noticing the sticks taking a lot longer to enter the beginnings of voltage collapse than expected (probably from the higher than expected actual SOC)? There isn't a normal positive recal, just significant Assist staying available much longer than expected.
I'm hoping to eventually see something near 144V on the pack voltage gauge (settled unloaded voltage)... so far I've had a tough time just getting it down to 150V. I want to "get the rocks out", eliminating the oversized crystals that surely have to be growing in the pack from the long-elevated absolute/actual SOC, but that might require careful external pack discharging. A discharged pack's being at a 150 settled unloaded volts vs. say, 142V, does seem an oddness, but if that's what's required to keep the cells out of voltage-reversal territory under heavy assist, then fine. It just seems odd.
I understand you can't go only by pack voltage for absolute SOC determination, regardless of however many hours it's had to settle, but pack voltage is related to absolute SOC (once it has settled at least).
Related yes... but , unfortunately there are too many other things that can be involved in order to use the voltage by itself... and it is very difficult to quantify all the other things that can effect the cell voltage that are not SoC ... even once it has settled.
For example ... one of the sub-packs I tested from a Civic that had been sitting for a few years... still read a terminal voltage of 7.41V ( and cells varied 1 or 2 mV right around ~1.235V per cell ) ... but even a discharge rate of 1Amp pulled it bellow 6.0V after just 4mAh of discharge ... after disconnecting the discharge the voltage started to climb back up again.
There are lots of things ... Voltage depression , Temperature, etc... but without getting overly technical ... Voltage alone is just not good to use for NiMH SoC.
It works fine for some battery types ... but not for NiMH.
It gets even worse when looking at large series battery packs.... where the voltage of individual cells just gets obscured.
And gets even worse as Current flows in and out of a battery pack dynamically.
Traced some of the subpacks on their first charge after removing them from my car. Not very pretty, and if all old packs look like this, I am not surprised that the car sets a code.
I will trace the rest tomorrow, then do a discharge test, and then a recharge to see if things change.
Way more information in the traces than I presently understand.
Trace of First charge on first 8 subpacks: http://99mpg.com/ProjectCars/mimapackwhack/subpacks18/
I will take a really unbalances one like #2 0r #7, and charge it for several hours with the 350ma to see if the cells get better balanced.
Related yes... but , unfortunately there are too many other things that can be involved in order to use the voltage by itself... and it is very difficult to quantify all the other things that can effect the cell voltage that are not SoC ... even once it has settled.
...
It gets even worse when looking at large series battery packs.... where the voltage of individual cells just gets obscured.
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