grid charger/balancer

[originalbadbob]

I had been getting about 2-3 recals a week since I changed jobs and am pulling several big hills on the way to work. The IMA light came on about a week and a half ago as well and I have a P1447 code.
I just received the parts for the charger (about $112 including shipping), and plan on assembling it this weekend. I'll need to get with Mike to see about hooking it up and will post my results.
I have 156,000 miles on my 2000 MT Insight now.

[retepsnikrep]

Be interesting to see if the grid charger can save that one or if it needs the more aggresive treatment and individual subpack/cycling replacement. Peter

[Mike Dabrowski 2000]

Thats great Bob,
Anyone that wants to build one of these and has any questions feel free to give me a call or e-mail for advise on connections or construction.
The small threaded mounting holes are a metric thread, but a 4-40 will also work.
The mounting holes do not have a lot of free space inside the unit, so use a screw that threads in only 2-3 threads to avoid hitting the electronics. I used a piece of linen phenolic to mount the units, but any material will work that is stiff, and preferably for safety non conductive.
The units are already covered with a perforated metal cover, so only the fuse and terminals are dangerous.
I left room between units so air can freely circulate.
The only difficult connection to the pack is the positive one on the pack side terminal board where the precharge resistor connects to the precharge relay. It you make a long probe like I did, or buy a pomona long test clip, you can connect without pulling the pack. Do not connect the positive charger lead to the top positive terminal, as that will not charge the pack when the relays are off, and you don't want to apply the charge to the inverter with the car off.
You will want to connect to the battery fan. The 2 pin fan connector is available from Honda, as are the pigtail female receptacles. I will see if I can dig up the part numbers.
BE SURE TO TURN OFF THE PACK AND WAIT 5 MINUTES FOR THE INVERTER CAPS TO DISCHARGE BEFORE TRYING TO CONNECT TO THE PACK. Once the connections are securely made, turn the pack disconnect switch back on to complete the circuit and begin charging.
Because there are several different issues with the packs, we need to try this on as many packs as possible, and should record the results here.
My cousin nemystic has been getting recals for over two years, as he does not use the insight when he can commute with his electrically assisted recumbant bike. He is hoping to come down on Friday to give the charger a try. He will get the pack as full as possible with MIMA on the way down so the charging will not take too long. I should have the labview data acquisition system operational by then so we will have a voltage/time graph of the topping off process.
Yes Peter it will be interesting.

[Mike Dabrowski 2000]

The long positive attachment lead was home made, but pomona makes one that is 6" long
4225-2
that may be long enough to do the job?

The two pin fan connector shell is available from your local honda dealer as part number
04321-SH2-307

I don't have the part number for the wires with female pins, but if you go to your local dealer with the connector shell number, they can cross reference to the correct pigtails.
I believe that the shells came 5 in a pack for about $6 and the wires with pins were about $15
for ten.
Please post the lead part numbers here once it is determined.
The extra pins and shells can be sold to others that want to make the charger.

[E27006]

Originally Posted by Mike Dabrowski 2000

We still need to source a nice safe male/female connector, and a 1A 200VCD in line fuse and holder.
Anyone want to look into that?
I will have the power supplies in hand first week in May.

How about making the charge leads voltage-free until plug and socket are connected.

Wire the high volts DC to the open contacts of a normally closed Relay

Wire one side of the Relay Coil to +12 Volts Dc, The other end of the Relay coil goes to the plug.

The socket has a loopback wire for the relay coil ground

Only when the Plug and Socket are mated will the relay energise and switch through the DC charge current.

Added benefit, If the 12 Volts fails for any reason the Relay will drop cutting off the charge current

[retepsnikrep]

I put two 400v 3 amp diodes in the leads for the hv charger socket on the ima relay board, one in each lead +/-

These ensure the battery HV cannot appear at the socket or even outside the ipu comp which I fitted on a flying lead in the wheel well.

The socket only accepts power in, not out.

[Mike Dabrowski 2000]

I like Peters diode on each leg, keep it simple and cheap, power only needs to go one way.

This looks like a good inexpensive fuse, and a good candidate for a group purchace.
3403.0166.11

It is a surface mount part, and is UL rated for 250 VDC
The data sheet:
http://www.schurterinc.com/pdf/english/typ_umt_250.pdf

so a small fuse/ diode board would make this an in line circuit protector.
It could be easily put on a small perf board, and potted in hot melt and epoxy with wires coming out. A nice mounting spot for the connector is under the passenger side rear aluminum. The storage liner would cover the spot when you were not using it.
The whole charger would fit in there hardwired through the protector for permanent installation. A volt and amp meter would be a nice optional enhancement.
First we need to see how well it actually works, so the first test will be important. I will do one Friday.

[uhtrinity]

Just a few things to add:


First, I haven't had any issues having my charger connected while turning on the key and even starting the car as long as the battery isn't too cold or too hot. If the car attempts to turn on the fans while you are running the fans on an external voltage the car throws a P1644 code. This code can either be cleared with a reader, or you can just wait and the check engine light will clear within 30 minutes of driving. The code however remains in the computer.

If this happens there is another weird side effect. When you turn off the key the dash indicators will saty lit, but are very dim. They go off when the charger is disconnected. I finally made the connection a few days ago when I forgot to unplug and the battery packs were over 90F. I had left the fans disconnected all winter as they kept the packs too cold.

Second, adding isolating diodes add a great safety feature. But I have run into an occasional issue with my LM317HV charger where it shuts off before hitting a matching voltage. Sometimes as much as 5 volts low. I think this is due to the LM317HV chips having problems detecting a voltage differential between the battery and the bridge rectifier output. I'm not sure if this will be an issue with the off the shelf units.

I have considered removing the diodes in mine, but it still works ~95 - 99% of the time and hasn't been a huge issue as I can usually just unplug and replug to get it going again. I will also be splitting my two LM317HV outputs to each charge their own pack which may change how the diodes effect the circuit. Hopefully I can do this in the next few weeks.

[JimIsbell]

Originally Posted by E27006

Only when the Plug and Socket are mated will the relay energise and switch through the DC charge current.

Added benefit, If the 12 Volts fails for any reason the Relay will drop cutting off the charge current

I like this idea and I can combine it with my use of the 4 pin, indexed, trailer connector so that it turns on the fan, AND applies the HV to the plug. This will give me temperature protection AND HV protection, in an indexed plug that cannot be reversed accidentally. The trailer connector has worked fine for me now for over 6 months and I have tried to insert it backwards a couple of times....but have not been successful. The trailer connector has a spring loaded cover so the pins are not exposed, but turning off the HV is a great idea.

[Hybrid-Battery-Repair]

Mike,

I was thinking that I might start wiring in connections for grid chargers. Given that the pack is 20 sticks, wouldn't it be better to use 5 smaller chargers (4 sticks = 30V each?) I want to start wiring in the connections on the relay board side and bring out a (safe) connector with 6 charging leads. I'd like to wire in a main relay disconnect and a fan connect as well.

Plugging in the connector would disable the main relays and turn on the fan.