I've had 3 2000 5-speed insights, with 46k, 108k, and 172k miles. Every single one has needed an upper 02 sensor. It seems the lower ones never go, and the upper ones always do! Honda wants around $350-$400 for one, so of course, I'm going to look elsewhere first. Read my earlier post about NOT buying them on ebay (for the 2000 5-speed,) as they are ALL wrong and will not work correctly. I've been through 2 sellers on ebay that, although they list them as the correct sensor for that year insight, they are not. The one seller (ebay user: lacyberdealz at $115,) gave me my money back no problem, but I ate the shipping both ways. The second one I tried (ebay user: Global-automotive in Miami at $69.95,) immediately pulls o2 sensor malfunction codes repatedly, and he is now trying to claim that the car now needs to be "reprogrammed" by the dealer (not just clearing the code) in order for it to work correctly (which, of course, is an outright lie; he just doesn't want to give me back my money.) 44,000 feedbacks too, so I thought I'd be safe. I'm having to dispute the matter through paypal (as we speak,) as he is not willing to refund my money despite his false advertising and claims. I called Bosch directly a couple days ago, and, according to their tech, he said the ONLY and correct BOSCH upper o2 sensor for the 2000 insights is their # 15393. It is ONLY for the 2000 model and is a wideband. Advance auto and Autozone both sell them for $187.99, in their stores and even on their websites. (although at both stores, they always need to order it in; a couple days wait usually, and it has to be paid in full up front.) I'm picking it up tomorrow, and will let you know if it works properly. I just don't want others to have to go through all the b.s. I've gone through, and am currently still going through.....PS: After rereading part of the earlier posts on this thread, to confirm, the top sensor is indeed a 5 wire, whereas the lower is a 4 wire, but don't assume that this is all you have to make sure of when buying; both of the uppers I bought were 5 wire units.
OK, I didn't want to jack the other guy's thread that I posted this on, considering the o2 sensor does not seem to be his problem after all, so I've copied it and started the thread here.
My results with the Bosch #15393 were as I'd hoped. After being cleared, the check engine light stays off as it should, the car goes into lean burn mode as it should, just like with the stock NTK. I'm quite happy with it! $187.99 from Advance Auto or the same price at Autozone. Unless it is a Bosch #15393 or the correct NTK (I don't know NTK's part number or a supplier; perhaps someone else would know and could chime in,) then stay away from it!!!!
Checking at the Autozone and Kragen websites for the Bosch #15393 O2 sensor shows that they get $396.99 for the part. OUCH!!!! That makes the $187.99 price at Advance Auto a buy!
Too bad there aren't any Advance Auto stores here in CA.
Car Domain sells it for $172.31 + shipping. That's the best price I could find anywhere!
Autoparts Warehouse sells it online with free shipping for $253.33, still a substantial savings!
Rock Auto gets $254.79 + shipping.
Last edited by Patrickmilburn; 06-21-2009 at 01:32 AM.
I've had 3 2000 5-speed insights, with 46k, 108k, and 172k miles. Every single one has needed an upper 02 sensor. It seems the lower ones never go, and the upper ones always do!
More importantly, in TSB 07-038, Honda has authorized replacing the ECM of any vehicle generating P0420 codes. An overly sensitive ECM can generate a P0420 code and this can lead you to think the LAF (upper O2) sensor is bad.
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2000 MT #4227 175K miles - Citrus Yellow, BetterBattery
I had the upper sensor DTC code(believe it was P1162) and replaced it with a NTK 24301 which seem's to work just fine. A month later I got the DTC P0420 (CAT CODE) and I replaced the second sensor with a Bosch 13075 but I still keep getting the P0420 CODE. I have a 2000 manual transmission and you can't get the upper Catalytic converter seperately from the Honda dealer. They do sell the upper Catalytic converter in the 2002 and above models and I'm tempted to try and get one of those and replace my converter. However before I do that I think I will try and replace the Bosch 13075 with a universal wide band to see if that will clear the code.
I have a 2000 manual transmission and you can't get the upper Catalytic converter seperately from the Honda dealer.
Brown's Recycling in Alabama can legally rebuild your cat. You ship it to them and they cut it open and replace the substrate. It takes them 1 day in house and they quoted me $160.
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2000 MT #4227 175K miles - Citrus Yellow, BetterBattery
DON'T try a universal wideband; it will not work. This is one of the ones I bought (universal bosch 5 wire,) and it would not work, despite it being wired properly! Paypal did recover my money from global-automotive though. And just for the record, all 3 of my 2000 manual insights (that I replaced the upper o2 sensors in,) work fine, and for thousands of miles now. I guess I just got lucky none also needed a cat?
Last edited by chris22104; 06-22-2009 at 09:28 PM.
I just bought a Bosch pre-cat O2 sensor (#15393) at Pep Boys for $179.
The SNG SN5-1 seems to be a good cross, but I'm having trouble finding info about it. As long as it's heated, 5-wire with the right connector, why won't it work?
So is the general consensus that the Bosch 15393 does work properly?
Edit/update: I got the Bosch 15393 online for $172. Oddly, it said NTK on it, but I digress.
I rented an O2 socket from a local Advance auto parts store, but the nut stripped anyways. I managed to get the old (I believe original) upper O2 sensor out with an open end 7/8 craftsman wrench. The cat threads stripped at the end of the removal operation, and I couldn't get the new Bosch threads to grab.
I got a spark plug "thread tracer" ( sort of hybrid between bung plug and thread cutter) in 14/18 mm size, ran that in and out of the cat a few times, and got the new O2 sensor in. Went to the store to use the code reader, cleared the codes, and had a successful test drive. Lean burn is back!
My tip/hint to others: be careful taking out the old O2 sensor - if it goes a little crooked, it can mess up the threads in the cat bung. Lucky for me the spark plug thread tracer worked.
Last edited by joecellodude; 12-20-2009 at 08:43 PM.
I've had 3 2000 5-speed insights, with 46k, 108k, and 172k miles. Every single one has needed an upper 02 sensor. It seems the lower ones never go, and the upper ones always do! Honda wants around $350-$400 for one, so of course, I'm going to look elsewhere first. Read my earlier post about NOT buying them on ebay (for the 2000 5-speed,) as they are ALL wrong and will not work correctly. I've been through 2 sellers on ebay that, although they list them as the correct sensor for that year insight, they are not. The one seller (ebay user: lacyberdealz at $115,) gave me my money back no problem, but I ate the shipping both ways. The second one I tried (ebay user: Global-automotive in Miami at $69.95,) immediately pulls o2 sensor malfunction codes repatedly, and he is now trying to claim that the car now needs to be "reprogrammed" by the dealer (not just clearing the code) in order for it to work correctly (which, of course, is an outright lie; he just doesn't want to give me back my money.) 44,000 feedbacks too, so I thought I'd be safe. I'm having to dispute the matter through paypal (as we speak,) as he is not willing to refund my money despite his false advertising and claims. I called Bosch directly a couple days ago, and, according to their tech, he said the ONLY and correct BOSCH upper o2 sensor for the 2000 insights is their # 15393. It is ONLY for the 2000 model and is a wideband. Advance auto and Autozone both sell them for $187.99, in their stores and even on their websites. (although at both stores, they always need to order it in; a couple days wait usually, and it has to be paid in full up front.) I'm picking it up tomorrow, and will let you know if it works properly. I just don't want others to have to go through all the b.s. I've gone through, and am currently still going through.....PS: After rereading part of the earlier posts on this thread, to confirm, the top sensor is indeed a 5 wire, whereas the lower is a 4 wire, but don't assume that this is all you have to make sure of when buying; both of the uppers I bought were 5 wire units.
Both NTK 24301 and Bosch 15393 are equivalent in my parts books. Both available from Amazon for about $175. Alternatives not acceptable.
However, since Honda TSB 07-038 specifically relates throwing a 420 code from an ECM that is oversensitive it pays to check that first thru a Honda dealer BUT YOU NEED TO CLEAR IT FIRST AS IT IS A GOODWILL REPLACEMENT NEEDING DISTRICT OFFICE APPROVAL. And it is a more expensive ,repair' However, as my EPA contacts indicate EPA takes a dim view of a manufacturer not replacing an ECM that can generate false emission failure signals.
Unfortunately you may not find out that's the problem until the O2 sensor is replaced and 420 still throws unless you replace the ECM first.. $175 down the drain.
The old ECM p/n is 37820-PHN-345 and the 2000 p/n is 37820-PHM-355 and 2001 p/n 37820-PHM-326. FRT is 0.3
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2000 owners in need of an upper 2 sensor: BEWARE!
