Question to Calpod re: The Original FAS

[azaviator]

Any one who can answer, please do. I directed this question to Calpod only because he is the first person to do this mod and I assume can best answer the question.

I have looked through the FAS, it works! thread and decided that I like the original idea that Calpod came up with using the fuse #7 switch. Trouble is, I can't seem to wrap my head around how to set it up.

I got the Add-a-Circuit (AAC) but can't understand how to set up the switch. If I understand correctly, the AAC should go into fuse #7. The fuse for #7 should be put into the slot nearest to the fuseblock on the AAC. It seems that I am supposed to tap into a blown fuse on the other slot on the AAC (the one with a wire coming from it). Do I tap the side furthest from the wire? Is the wire the other half of the curcuit for the momentary switch? If this is the setup, it confuses me how the switch would bipass the fuse for #7. Doesn't the operating fuse in the AAC keep the circuit closed?

I really want to add this mod to my Insight, but I'm not too electrically inclined so it's been a headache to try to understand. I have wired the CARD and the brake switch mod into the car (both have worked with no problem for the last year), so I'm sure I can do it with minimal guidance. I just want to fully understand it so I don't cause any damage.

Anyone who has done this mod, or can understand the info on the first few pages of the thread above better than I can, please give me some insight into this. As I said, the question is to Calpod, but I would like anyone to explain if they can.

Thank you.

[3-Wheeler]

Hi,

Like you, I have not done the mod, but I did see full instructions on how to do this at CleanMPG.

According to those directions, there is much more involved than making a jump switch across a fuse.

You might want to start your search there for that old article.

Jim.

[azaviator]

I played around a bit with the idea of how to switch the fuse using the AAC. It took me a bit to figure it out, but I was able to get it to work this afternoon. It is a VERY simple procedure and from a bit of testing today, it seems to work very much like the factory A/S. I have noticed that the DC/DC converter does not charge the battery with this technique, but all of the safeguards for engine restart work well. Gas pedal pressure - works, brake pressure loss - works, clutch release - works, putting into gear - works!!!! My daytime usage today seemed to help my mileage a bit. A bit of night driving has shown me that it is probably not the best idea to overuse FAS with the headlights on. My battery always stays ~2-3 bars from the top. Tonight while using the new FAS, it has dropped to almost half. I will do some more testing over the next few days to try to improve my understanding and usage of FAS.

I would still like to hear from anyone who has done this mod (or any other version of FAS) to hear their ideas of the best times/places/speeds to use it. Also, if there is a better way (like: is it possible to keep the DC/DC converter in operation?) I would love to hear about it.

If anyone is interested, after some more testing, I would be willing to do a writeup of how to do this very simple mod (though I will NOT be held responsible for any damage caused to anyone elses Insight).

LET THE GAMES BEGIN!! (and by games I mean HIGH MPGs...)

3-Wheeler, I saw that article too, and it confused the heck out of me! I believe a lot of the steps that he took were because he had MIMA. I am running without a joystick so a lot of it didn't apply to me. I do have the CARD and Max Regen mods, so a basic FAS seemed to be the next logical step. I think (not 100% sure as the other mods were over a year ago) all of these mods have cost me less than $20, and IMO they are very much worth the money. MIMA on the otherhand is a bit intimidating to me. I like to stick with what I know .

[3-Wheeler]

Originally Posted by azaviator

If anyone is interested, after some more testing, I would be willing to do a writeup of how to do this very simple mod (though I will NOT be held responsible for any damage caused to anyone elses Insight)

Yes, I would definitely be interested in how you did it!! If you do a write up, please PM me so I can look for your article here.

Regarding MIMA, I do plan on adding MIMA_L to my car, as I would really like better control of the IMA system when accelerating and decelerating.

There are times when slowing, that I have to dab the gas pedal numerous times when slowly downshifting to get Regen to work. Those are the times that MIMA_L would be so much easier and consistent!!

Thanks for clarification, Jim.

[azaviator]

A day or two after I installed the FAS button, the car lit up the CEL. I went to Autozone to have them check it (and let me reset it), and it turned out to be a P1162 code. With a little research I've found the P1162 to be a malfunctioning o2 sensor, here are a few links:
DTC 1162 upstream O2 sensor circuit malfunction
O2 sensor failure
2000 owners in need of an upper 2 sensor: BEWARE!

The code didn't come back once it was cleared, so I was hoping it was a fluke. Been driving for the last two weeks without any problems, but...

Today while on my daily commute, another CEL, another P1162. Since I have had this car for almost 2 years without a single CEL, I have determined that the codes are probably due to the version of FAS that I have been using (though my mind can't comprehend why a possibly rich situation would cause a o2 sensor heater malfunction, any ideas?).

I should mention that the CEL appeared at times that seemed entirely unrelated to the FAS. The first time was about 10 minutes after having used the FAS button, well after the engine came back on. Todays episode was after exiting the freeway. I used the FAS button while entering the offramp at 58mph. About the time I slowed to 40, I put it into gear to get some regen,which allowed the normal A/S to kick in at 22mph. While I was stopped at the light the CEL came on.

So, I guess I will have to dig a bit deeper and possibly try to figure out how to change my FAS to one that shuts off the fuel instead of the ignition. I would love to hear from anyone with any FAS experience, preferably without MIMA (though I'm not sure if MIMA makes a difference). Also, still wondering about keeping the DC/DC converter working, if anyone knows?

Anyways, I plan to wait until after the holidays to deal with this issue. In the meantime, I plan on NOT using the FAS button to see if the code will still come back. I'm hoping to get lucky on this one and not have to shell out a couple hundred $$$ on the sensor.

[Calpod]

Hi Azaviator, I only had original FAS for a short time, this was only to test if it would work, since it had never been done before, I thought that it may give throw a code, but a bigger concern of mine was that if there was any unburned fuel going past the cylinders it may ignite and cause the engine to backfire and likely to damage the cats (expensive)

If you're still using the fuse to cut the spark make sure you get off the gas first (this will cause the car to enter in Fuel Cut Mode, so there will be no fuel in the cylinders.

Hope this helps.

[azaviator]

Updated findings in my use of the FAS switch that I have installed.

I stopped using the FAS switch in December because of the CEL coming on as stated previously. About a month ago, I gathered the courage to test it out again.

I found that the CEL will light if:
1)the FAS switch is used. Then,
2)I put the car into gear to use Regen braking to finish the deceleration.

The CEL stays off (YMMV) if:
1)the FAS switch is used. Then,
2)I put the car into gear and immediately accelerate up to speed.

I have been without the CEL for a couple of weeks. I have limited my use of the FAS switch to city driving. If I know I will be slowed by a light that's about 1/3 mile ahead (if less than 1/3 mile, I use Regen braking) I will use the FAS switch and coast toward the light. When it changes, I put it into gear and accelerate up to speed. If I have to stop, I'm stuck using the friction brakes (though it doesn't happen often since I'm good at timing lights). Then, when the light changes I put it into gear and accelerate up to speed.

If I need Regen, I won't use the FAS switch until the battery has a good charge. Not a common problem since the way I drive, the battery stays 2-3 bars from full (gotta love the CARD switch!).

I have played with FAS a bit on the freeway, but found it doesn't work well (again, YMMV). In Phoenix, road rage is a common problem with the heat we have and I don't want to set anyone off, so I try to drive 'friendly' on the freeway. If I use the FAS switch while exiting the freeway, my option is to either coast down for a long ways to avoid using the friction brakes (pisses people off), or to wait to FAS until I'm closer to the exit (forcing me to waste energy by using the friction brakes). Also, if I use FAS for pulse and glide, accelerating drops the battery charge too much, keeping me from using the FAS switch on the city streets. Not good options, IMO.

So, for now, I will be using it almost exclusively on the city streets. But, I will continue to test it in the future as the seasons change.

I don't have any news yet as to the MPG gains because my current tank started of with a fast (70-75mph) highway drive for the 1st 250 miles, which set me back to ~75MPG. I have about 500 miles now and am showing 82.9MPG, so it seems to be helping to get the numbers up, but I will know better on my next tank.

[RobertSmalls]

I've been using a three-injector kill switch for thousands of miles without CELs or any other issues. Blowing unburned fuel into the exhaust is a bad idea, considering the sensitive and expensive O2, cat, and EGR on this car.

FAS as laid out on 99mpg.com is just about ideal (the only thing that could make it better is having the button accompanied by a blip of regen for a faster engine kill and a little energy recovery). But if that system is too complicated for you to build, as it was for me when I started, you could simplify it a little. All you strictly need is to run the injector wires through a relay that you can operate with a toggle switch. If you build it that way, the engine will stop when you hit the switch, but it will restart immediately if CARD is off. Your DC/DC converter will also turn off until the engine restarts. Or you could buy the FAS board from Mike.

Regarding driving style, I do not hesitage to kill the engine, because I can re-start it with a blip of the throttle. When I approach a stop in moderate traffic, I kill the engine as I shift to neutral, well before I'm ready to brake. The car coasts very well, and it's not offensive in traffic. When I get close to the stop, I tap the throttle to re-start the engine and rev-match, and put it in 3rd or 2nd for a pull of regen once I'm closer to the red light or stop sign.

On the expressway, if there's anyone behind me, it's important that he not have to brake or even lift off the throttle just because my exit is coming up. I hold my cruising speed until I'm out of the expressway lane and securely on the offramp. Then I jump on the regen brakes. On some expressways, it takes lots of friction braking too. That's the price you pay for cruising fast. On other expressways, it's part EOC, part regen braking.

[Mike Dabrowski 2000]

FYI
I just sold an FAS card to a guy without MIMA, and put up the following install instructions.
MIMA Honda Insight Modified Integrated Motor Assist - The FAS system.

[azaviator]

Originally Posted by Mike Dabrowski 2000

FYI
I just sold an FAS card to a guy without MIMA, and put up the following install instructions.
MIMA Honda Insight Modified Integrated Motor Assist - The FAS system.

Thanks for the link!

How does your FAS device keep the dc/dc enabled? Does it just complete the circuit the entire time that the car is on, or is it switched somehow on use of the FAS?

Also, when I FAS, the oil and brake annunciators light up (though the brakes work as they should). With your device, do they come on, or does it operate EXACTLY as the normal Autostop (no reds, just the green indicator)?