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Old 12-09-2009, 06:44 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Inside the G1 MDM & more power!

In a quest for more power from the IMA system I've started investigating the Motor Drive Module (MDM). As expected it's a beautifully designed and massively conservative in it's specs with lots of headroom for increased power flow.

I'm working with Jeremy a very clever chap in UK with a few ideas about how we can boost assist level. This is mainly again for the Insight UK Rally car, but anything we find out of course could be very useful for us all. The lifebatt batteries I've just ordeded can do 200A discharge so that looks a very appealing possibility!! I'm setting my sights initially on a 50% increase in assist if the motor will stand it.

Anyway here are some photos of the MDM in pieces.

It has three 350V 1750uf power filter capacitor in parallel fed from the main power input. This then feeds a fairly standard looking Mitshuishi IGBT power module. Now I can't find the exact data sheet for it yet but extrapolating from others in the range it appears to be rated at 250A at 600V. Plenty of overhead there IMO.

The output from the power igbt module goes through three current sensors (One per phase) and straight to the motor.

www.solarvan.co.uk/mdm/IgbtModule.pdf

www.solarvan.co.uk/mdm/MDM001.jpg
www.solarvan.co.uk/mdm/MDM002.jpg
www.solarvan.co.uk/mdm/MDM003.jpg
www.solarvan.co.uk/mdm/MDM004.jpg
www.solarvan.co.uk/mdm/MDM005.jpg
www.solarvan.co.uk/mdm/MDM006.jpg
www.solarvan.co.uk/mdm/MDM007.jpg
www.solarvan.co.uk/mdm/MDM008.jpg
www.solarvan.co.uk/mdm/MDM009.jpg
www.solarvan.co.uk/mdm/MDM010.jpg

For some light bed time reading here is a pdf about BLDC motor control

www.solarvan.co.uk/mdm/MotorControl.pdf

Peter
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Old 12-09-2009, 06:24 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Interesting.

How much torque do you think the system will handle?

I suspect they gave themselves a safety margin ... but they also were trying to keep everything as light as possible ... so it might not be a very large safety margin.

--------

If it pans out I wonder about a single MDM then powering two IMA motors.
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Old 12-10-2009, 12:03 AM   #3 (permalink)
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That is interesting. I'm surprised about the trapezoidal vs. sine discussion in the motor control PDF. Apparently the BLDC vs permanent magnet synchronous motor is way more standardized than I thought... just trapezoid and sine windings, and the hall effect sensors imply it's trapezoid/BLDC.

Anyway, you could try scaling the current sensor outputs. I think if you scale the phase sensors, the DC sensor, and the battery sensor by the same percentage you'd max out the motor before the MCM knew anything was wrong. It could possibly tell that the rise time is too slow, but I'm guessing there's a lot of latitude on that. There's a current fault output on the power module, but it's digital.
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Old 12-10-2009, 01:40 AM   #4 (permalink)
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200 amps at whatever voltage those cells are at with that much load on them should produce enough power for a moderate pace of acceleration, at least when ignoring the gas engines compression load. Just remember that once breakdown torque has been reached any additional power could cause demagnitization, unfortunetly I don't think that this would be easy to test for, although I suppose a dynamometer could get pretty close as long as the engine doesn't interfere too much.

Now you've got me daydreaming of three IMA motors stacked in the engine bay with 600 amp total peak with an appropriately sized(200Ah or so)pack, instead of the HPEVS AC50 that I was dreaming about earlier, that could be about 78 horsepower and with more torque available throughout would make the Insight into a bit of a speedster.
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Old 12-10-2009, 01:50 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IamIan View Post
How much torque do you think the system will handle?
No idea, but It seems they allowed themselves 100% headroom on the electronic specs for every component which seems to be borne out looking at the MDM internals. Hopefully motor is the same. But if we can get 50% than that would be good!

If you mean how much torque will the drivetrain stand, gearbox, driveshafts etc then again no idea.

If I can get +50% then I might keep going until something breaks or I reach 200A which will be the limit for my cells.

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Anyway, you could try scaling the current sensor outputs. I think if you scale the phase sensors, the DC sensor, and the battery sensor by the same percentage you'd max out the motor before the MCM knew anything was wrong.
Well spotted that's the initial plan!! I haven't look at the sensor in details yet though so don't know what the output is. They are three wire types through.
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Old 12-10-2009, 06:11 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
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any additional power could cause demagnitization, unfortunetly I don't think that this would be easy to test for
You know... it occurred to me that instead of going up and up until something random breaks.

Another method would be to test the magnets without risking breaking other things... after all the demagnetization issue is just about how our particular magnets react to the temperature and magnetic field strength on the magnets themselves.

If we send in a small sample of the IMA motor magnets to get properly tested somewhere ... we could find out exactly what they are made of ... and exactly what kind of specifics we need to keep in mind for Magnetic field strength , temperature , etc...

Once we know that... then we know that at least the IMA motor itself should be kept __% bellow that maximum to avoid progressive damage.

Than we should know what our peak upper limit is for the IMA motor itself.
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Old 12-10-2009, 06:36 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IamIan View Post
Another method would be to test the magnets without risking breaking other things... after all the demagnetization issue is just about how our particular magnets react to the temperature and magnetic field strength on the magnets themselves.

If we send in a small sample of the IMA motor magnets to get properly tested somewhere ... we could find out exactly what they are made of ... and exactly what kind of specifics we need to keep in mind for Magnetic field strength , temperature , etc...
Be my guest it's a good idea. I've only got one spare IMA motor so can't afford to sacrifce that by removing magnets etc.

I quite like the dynamometer idea.

If we slowly increase power we should see a fairly linear upwards power/torque slope until we get to the magnet saturation/overload point. When further current fails to produce more power we could back off 25% pronto and set that as our upper current limit.

Of course the motor might be very overated and we blow up the igbt driver before we reach max power!! Now that would be impressive!!
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Old 12-10-2009, 07:38 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Be my guest it's a good idea. I've only got one spare IMA motor so can't afford to sacrifce that by removing magnets etc.
I don't want to sacrifice the IMA motor from my car... so I will have to keep an eye out for a junked one... it doesn't even have to work... I would just need pieces of the magnet.

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I quite like the dynamometer idea.

If we slowly increase power we should see a fairly linear upwards power/torque slope until we get to the magnet saturation/overload point. When further current fails to produce more power we could back off 25% pronto and set that as our upper current limit.

Of course the motor might be very overated and we blow up the igbt driver before we reach max power!! Now that would be impressive!!
That would be another fine option ... I guess even if it doesn't tell us what the IMA motor's limits are ... it would still show us what is the weakest link in the chain... or what goes first as power increases ... and about where that point is reached.
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Old 12-16-2009, 06:18 AM   #9 (permalink)
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I'm struggling to get the data sheet for the Honda IGBT Module, Mitusbishi won't send me one as it is a discontinued Honda special part. However they have confirmed it is a 250A 600V IPM IGBT module, so seems to have reasonable overhead for some tweaking. I would hope 150A current should be possible without blowing it up. Possibly 200A for short periods if we are very lucky and something else doesn't melt first!

I've taken one of the phase current sensors out for some testing to see if it a voltage/current output. It comes apart very easily and the pcb is marked with power and signal etc but all the components are covered by a very substantial looking EMI shield so no clues from looking at it. Need to power it up and put some current through the sense coil.

I'll also need to upgrade the IMA 100A main fuse. Anyone know the spec and part number so I can see if they do a 150A or 200A version.

What about the MCM & BCM current sensors, Mike didn't you do some work on them, where is that data please?
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Old 12-16-2009, 07:15 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by retepsnikrep View Post
I'll also need to upgrade the IMA 100A main fuse. Anyone know the spec and part number so I can see if they do a 150A or 200A version.
IMA fuse:

Littelfuse
EV45100H
L4G09F
Assembled in Mexico

Is that enough?
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