I've had the Insight since March 2009, and during this time, I have had to "relearn" the BCM about five times.
The latest episode occurred about two weeks ago, when the SOC got to 19 bars. Historically, this is extremely high for my car, since it usually tops out about 17 or so, even after trickle charging.
Anyway, as I'm driving to/from work the SOC is slowly getting higher over the last month or so.
On the way home, about two weeks ago, the SOC drops to almost zero, a forced charge comes on, and slowly the SOC goes back up to 19 again, with the car giving good assist and regen.
That night I decided to check the level of the battery, which was at 160 volts or so, and I topped it off with a rate of 200 mA or so. It topped off at 168 or so, then dropped slightly to 167, which is typical.
I did not do a relearn after the charge and let the car discover the state of the battery. It seemed to work normal for about one week, when the bottom again fell out of the SOC, with the normal forced regen and then slowly topping of at 19 bars.
But now the car only gave about 5 seconds of assist or regen, which seemed odd. I wondered if it thought there was no capacity to the battery, so I flipped off the IMA disable switch, and there was no forced charge, which meant the battery capacity was fine.
After talking with Ron (Hybrid Repair), last night I did yet another relearn, and now the car seems back to it's normal self, regarding assist and regen.
I drive the car most of the time with the Calpod IMA disable switch activated to save gas, and flip the switch off when I need assist or regen.
Having to relearn the BCM seems to be a normal occurrence for me, and I would like your experience's in this area.
What you are describing are recals. Most likely you have a bad stick or two in your pack that is limiting the performance of the remainder. Since you are plugin charging and the issue still remains they might be too far gone. Another option would be to charge longer in hope of rebalancing, but doing that with the entire pack as a whole won't be as good as doing the subpacks separately.
What you are describing are recals. Most likely you have a bad stick or two in your pack that is limiting the performance of the remainder. Since you are plugin charging and the issue still remains they might be too far gone. Another option would be to charge longer in hope of rebalancing, but doing that with the entire pack as a whole won't be as good as doing the subpacks separately.
Hi uhtrinity,
Well, if that's the case, then it looks like the battery pack will have to come out this spring when the motorcycle can be used again.
Looks like I might have to invest in a battery reconditioner as well.
That night I decided to check the level of the battery, which was at 160 volts or so, and I topped it off with a rate of 200 mA or so. It topped off at 168 or so, then dropped slightly to 167, which is typical.
Thanks, Jim.
You say the Battery tops out at 168V, then drops slightly to 167.
When I top off my pack at 600Ma constant charge, it reaches a peak of about 173V before falling back (neg delta V effect).
Here are some sample figures:
Time (minutes)//Pack Voltage
You are about 5V lower than mine. Perhaps a number of your sticks are in a low state of charge, the other sticks reach 100% voltage but the low ones never get to that state, they might only reach 75%.
The answer might be to charge for longer. The fully charged sticks will dissipate their charge current as heat, while the low sticks continue to charge.
The question is, for an extended charge period, do you use 200mA or less?
I too don't bother to reset the IMa system after a top up.
The Car monitors the Pack voltage and performs a positive recal when appropriate.
Well, if that's the case, then it looks like the battery pack will have to come out this spring when the motorcycle can be used again.
Looks like I might have to invest in a battery reconditioner as well.
Jim.
I think a MIMA_L is the fastest, most versatile pack-at-once cycler out there.
Send me a PM in the spring. By then, I should have an idle Super Brain 989 charger/discharger/analyzer, a few bad sticks, and a heaping pile of good sticks left over from my battery reconditioning.
First. You really need to get the equipment to do charge discharge cycles. BUT...if you cannot afford it or dont want to spend the time, then the following is the MINIMUM you should do to see what you have.
You should NOT taper back the charge, 200 ma or even 300 ma will not cause heating enough to be a problem.
You apparently have several dead cells or at the very least (hopefully) several sticks that are not getting to full charge. You have to continue charging at 200ma or more, past the place where the best sticks reach their peak and then keep going until the weak ones come up.
If you will measure the voltages on each stick and monitor the one that is the lowest for the delta V that shows full charge, then you will have a fully charged pack.
Also, before I started charging it as described above, I would measure every stick, just to get a "before" picture of what you have. Then charge it and measure every stick. Then discharge it till the lowest ones start to loose voltage. Then measure the voltages again and you will be able to see if a stick has a bad cell in it. 6 volts should be the "bottom" any sticks that go below 6vbolts probably have dead cells.
As I said, this is the MINIMUM. this will not "fix" it, but it will give you a rough idea of where you are starting.
__________________
Jim Isbell
2000, 5 speed, 250,000 miles
"If you are not living on the edge, well then,
you are just taking up too much space."
Yes, I always charge the battery with 200mA or less.
And when the battery starts to top off at around 166 or so, then I taper the charge back to about 100 mA.
This is done to keep the heating effect of the cells down.
I notice you charge yours much higher.
Jim.
I monitor the Ohms of the PTC strip.
The PTC strip is used by the BCM to monitor battery temperature.
I will supply figures if you wish to see them, At 300 mA there is a modest level of heating,
In Summer temperatures the resting PTC value is about 20 to 21 Ohms.
In Winter i.e. today 1 deg C , Snow on the ground, I charged my pack at 300 mA, initial PTC strip read 16.9 Ohms, The Pack maximum was 173.5V PTC =17.4 Ohms, 140 minutes later the pack read 171 Volts and 19.1Ohms.
The PTC strip is used by the BCM to monitor battery temperature.
I will supply figures if you wish to see them, At 300 mA there is a modest level of heating,
In Summer temperatures the resting PTC value is about 20 to 21 Ohms.
In Winter i.e. today 1 deg C , Snow on the ground, I charged my pack at 300 mA, initial PTC strip read 16.9 Ohms, The Pack maximum was 173.5V PTC =17.4 Ohms, 140 minutes later the pack read 171 Volts and 19.1Ohms.
300mA is a safe limit
Thanks everyone, for all the responses. It really does help.
The funny thing is, after reading all of the posts here, over the last couple of years, I thought that maybe I could maintain the pack well enough to skirt these issues.
E27006, it looks like you charge your pack much more aggressively, and even then, the self heating seems pretty low.
You also keep charging for an additional 30 minutes or so past peak. At your rate of 600mA @ 30 minutes, that means I need to go at least 1.5 hours or so past peak. And maybe even longer to pick up those low cells.
I will try that tonight and keep the charge at 200mA and let it go a lot longer. Maybe the voltage will go higher too.
It would be interesting to find out where one can tap into the PT strip resistance. That would be nice to monitor when charging, and even in the summer, when the pack is used harder on a hot day!!
I would like to implement MIMA_L, and monitoring that PT resistance would help to keep the pack at reasonable temperatures. Using MIMA would also allow me to exercise the pack from top to bottom more regularly, and hopefully keep things in better shape.
Jim, I understand what you are saying as well, as I watched quite intently on how you implemented your "in-car-charging-taps" about one year back.
Thanks everyone, for all the responses. It really does help.
Remember that voltage is not a good indicator of capacity. For example I could show you two sticks that are about 7V after discharging 1Ah and yet if I discharge another 3 Ah, one could read 6.8V and the other 5.4V
__________________
2000 MT #4227 175K miles - Citrus Yellow, BetterBattery
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Does BCM get confused for you?
