More Lithium Battery options

[retepsnikrep]

Just another option I have ben looking at over last few days.

A123 Cells

Model: AHP 70165227 Model: AHP 68150211
Capacity: 20Ah or Capacity: 15Ah
Size: 7.0X 166X227mm Size: 6.8X 150X211mm
Weight: 480g Weight: 400g

Endless-sphere.com • View topic - 2.5USD per Ah for 15Ah and 20Ah 30C cells

Endless-sphere.com • View topic - New A123 Prismatic 20Ah cells 480g and 30C

I had a quote from the supplier on the forum.

Price breakdown to UK is as follows:
50 * 20Ah cell = 2500USD
shipping = 280USD
paypal commission, 3.4% = 95USD
Total = 2875USD or £1775

I thought that was good for 5x the stock useable capacity.
Weight is only 24kg as well for a 50 cell 20ah pack!!

The basic specs for the cells are phenomenal and the Insight will hardly touch their charge/discharge C ratings. 30C discharge!

I'm tempted!

[MN Driver]

You've got 40Ah of LiFePO4 on your daily driver and just put 8Ah into the stock form factor pack. Where would you put a 20Ah pack?

[retepsnikrep]

Don't know, might sell the lifebatt pack as a working oem replacement and build myself a 20ah setup.

Trying to see how much capacity you can cram in the Oem space is quite good fun in a perverse sought of way!!

The 8ah Lifebatt setup is a good start but I want to improve on that.

I'm keen to fit it all in the ipu compartment and I might sell my 40ah setup to a long distance commuter (which is where it get's the best mpg) and change that car to a 20ah setup.

[IamIan]

A123 cells are nice... but,

20Ah cell at 3.3V Nominal = ~66Wh / Cell
$2875 for 50 cells = ~$57.50 / cell = ~$871.21 / kwh

Performance has a price.

[retepsnikrep]

Originally Posted by IamIan

A123 cells are nice... but,

20Ah cell at 3.3V Nominal = ~66Wh / Cell
$2875 for 50 cells = ~$57.50 / cell = ~$871.21 / kwh

Performance has a price.

However what is the cost of a new oem nimh pack from Honda in US?

$3000+ or so? Capacity (6.5ah) <1kwh. Useable capacity (4ah) <600wh

Over here (UK) it is horrendous $4000+

A123 cells 20ah x 165v (50 cells) = 3.3kwh Useable capacity 3.3kwh

Of course BMS on top of that, and some time and effort but I think the price is pretty good.

[jonnyvtec]

Looks a nice option with no compromise of weight.

Every time i see that IPU open I just wish Honda had dropped just the batteries down into the wheel well. Although I guess the DC-DC and MDM is actually probably heavier with the heatsink etc?

[IamIan]

Originally Posted by retepsnikrep

However what is the cost of a new oem nimh pack from Honda in US?

$3000+ or so? Capacity (6.5ah) <1kwh. Useable capacity (4ah) <600wh

Over here (UK) it is horrendous $4000+

A123 cells 20ah x 165v (50 cells) = 3.3kwh Useable capacity 3.3kwh

Of course BMS on top of that, and some time and effort but I think the price is pretty good.

Oh , I agree it has the potential to be a very nice improvement ... and you are getting what you are paying for... they are very nice cells.

But here in the US the IMA battery lists as ~$2,000 and depending on your dealership some people have paid as much as ~$3,000... but that is for a complete plug and play module with warranty.

The A123 pack you are looking at is almost $3,000 just for the individual cells ... +battery box +BMS , +etc... considerably more than the 8Ah Lifebat.

The A123 option would further improve on the battery pack for the given space and weight ... but would be more expensive than the Lifebat.

And the A123 option would still finish up significantly under some of the PHEV conversion system prices.

[jonnyvtec]

Would your BMS allow a higher current regen on aftermarket batteries?

[retepsnikrep]

If the power increase mods work then yes. However I would not want to increase regen for the Lifebatt 8ah batteries as they are already over spec at 50A. The A123 batteries however can take upto 100A+ and can deliver upto 600A!

We may if we are very lucky be able to increase IMA power by 50% so we won't be stressing the A123 cells at all.

[Mike Dabrowski 2000]

I attended a seminar put on by A123. The batteries are very tough and light weight, but also very expensive.