My gut feeling is that the Insight's road load is too high - aerodynamics are poor
Yet I was under the impression that the Insight is one of the most aero-efficient car designs on the road today... ?
Although I agree with the rest of your premise...
I'll continue to follow OP's experiment with great interest, if he'd be kind enough to continue reporting his experiences going forward...
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Driving on down the road in my 2001 CVT, going "Boogety Boogety" ...and until avatars are provided, my car looks just like the original silver Insight on the header, above... =)
Yet I was under the impression that the Insight is one of the most aero-efficient car designs on the road today... ?
Yep, it is just about the best. The EV1 is the only mass-produced four wheeler with lower CdA than an Insight. But that doesn't make it good. Darin Cosgrove's aeromodded Metro hatchback is slightly more slippery than a stock Insight, as are the AeroCivic (~30% less drag!) and Dave Cloud's electric Dolphin. Drag coefficients lower than 0.15 have been demonstrated on concept cars, and the same or better should be achievable on an Insight.
So the Insight is very near the head of a very disappointing pack. I'm occasionally offended by how much fuel economy automakers leave on the table. For 70 years now, we've had the technology to halve the drag coefficient of the typical auto, but we've ignored it. And for what? Styling? Disgusting.
Last edited by RobertSmalls; 05-23-2010 at 02:02 PM.
I agree, I was watching the Chevy Volt videos and couldn't help but think of the EV1 and then the lady in one of Chevrolet's videos came out and said "This is the second most aerodynamic vehicles that GM has ever produced" describing it as being right behind the EV1, out of GM's line of course. If they would do EV1 or better they would be able to advertise 50 miles. I'm curious what the "up to 40 miles" will really mean on the highway. I'm waiting intently as I plan to scour every post of the Chevy Volt forum after it's release to read peoples experiences.
The Insight is small and light, if we did similar aero mods to Dave Cloud's electric Dolphin we would have a pretty sweet car. Not sure what we can do to match his 1200 pound frame weight but we would be able to be lighter than his 3200 pound total weight with the heavy lead-acid's inside. I'm curious enough to wonder what that would do for MPG(since it would provide a more direct comparison) without the batteries and just the Insight lean-burn gas engine inside.
There have been a few topics of people wishing that their cvt insights had lean burn, and that the Japanese market cvt did have lean burn. Some of the Japanese cvts were also exported to Europe and other countries.
Can anyone comment on real life operation, mpg, ability to get into and maintain lean burn in a cvt?
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2001 Red CVT
19,351 miles lmpg 19.0 as of Oct 7, 2011
My first full tank 62.4 MPG
Email dave@groe.us
There have been a few topics of people wishing that their cvt insights had lean burn, and that the Japanese market cvt did have lean burn. Some of the Japanese cvts were also exported to Europe and other countries.
Can anyone comment on real life operation, mpg, ability to get into and maintain lean burn in a cvt?
I asked this same question not that long ago. The problem is, there was only one IC member that seemed to have one of these mystical JDM-come-Euro CVT's w/Lean-burn, and they were in a very hilly area, and so were unable to compare top-end numbers with some US members in the flatlands (Canada never even got the CVTs at all).
The last thread about this, I started, with the concept of figuring out a way (easiest way being to put the ECM from one of these mystical JDM CVT's into a USDM CVT Insight) to make a USDM Insight Leanburn.
We already know that a USDM CVT ICE is capable of LB because of Fabio's experiment in this thread, and thus, its the control electronics that simply arent doing it.
We came up with a part number for the JDM CVT ECM, but all the dealerships wanted upwards of $1500 for it, if they could even get it.
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2001 Silver Canadian DM MT (has DRL and A/C std)
Mods:
CARD switch
John Wayland's Shoebox Sub
OBDIIC&C Gauge v0.02 (Beta Test Team Member)
Paul Andrews in UK has the CVT rally car and a number of normal CVT's, he reports from a long journey yesterday using the OBDIIC&C tool and LB light he achieved over 90mpg IMP at 60-65mph. If that helps? Once he gets used to seeing the AFR etc he will prob comment further.
Someone else needs to try this... maybe I will some day. I trust that Fabio knew what he was talking about, as lean burn is pretty easy to detect once you're familiar with it.. however, it would be nice to have a verification with the OBDIIC&C or something.
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Insight #1 - Silver '01 5MT @ 158,388 as of 7/11 - Best Tank: 84.5MPG over 807mi
Insight #2 - Silver '01 5MT @ 450,000 as of 1/12 - Best Tank: 86.0MPG over 800mi
Insight #3 - Silver '00 5MT, MIMA #163P, BCM Gauge, OBDIIC&C Gauge, BetterBattery @ 228,869 as of 1/12 - Best Tank: 78.4mpg over 687mi
I would really like to know more about any potential differences in the engine for the MT compared to the CVT. I know the CVT compression is lower, but what else might be different? I would hate to try something on a CVT and fry valves, CATs, etc......but it would be nice to get lean burn....where I live it is fairly flat terain and I could probebly be in lean burn a lot.
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2001 Red CVT
19,351 miles lmpg 19.0 as of Oct 7, 2011
My first full tank 62.4 MPG
Email dave@groe.us
The only difference is the compression ratio as far as I know. It would be worth getting a JDM ECM and trying it out. Shouldn't be any concerns with valves and cats.
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Insight #1 - Silver '01 5MT @ 158,388 as of 7/11 - Best Tank: 84.5MPG over 807mi
Insight #2 - Silver '01 5MT @ 450,000 as of 1/12 - Best Tank: 86.0MPG over 800mi
Insight #3 - Silver '00 5MT, MIMA #163P, BCM Gauge, OBDIIC&C Gauge, BetterBattery @ 228,869 as of 1/12 - Best Tank: 78.4mpg over 687mi
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