Fabio puts CVT sourced ICE in MT Insight. Fabio Lean burns.

[Fabio]

Details:
-Brent buys salvage 2001 Honda Insight, equipped with MT, busted oil pan.
-Brent discovers evidence of a spun bearing. Decides not to risk further engine damage and opts to replace ICE.
-Brent does not have another 2001 Honda Insight ICE on hand. Fabio, on the other hand, has a 2003 CVT sourced ICE, along with a half dozen other CVT sourced Insight engines that Brent can't sell for the life of him.
-Fabio decides to install one particularly high mileage 2003 CVT sourced ICE in the aforementioned troubled 2001 MT Honda Insight.
-Fabio decides to heed paranoid rumors on InsightCentral that CVT and MT Insight ICEs are not compatible. He swaps some spark plugs and a couple engine dressings.
-Fabio mates 03 CVT sourced ICE to 01 MT IMA motor, clutch, trans, etc.. Installs misc dressings, drops in the hacked together assembly, finishes swap. Fabio test drives Insight.
-Fabio lean burns. Easily.

I think this is reasonable evidence to suggest that the difference between the CVT and MT sourced ICE's piston heights have consequences that could have been possibly been over-emphasized.

I sure as heck can't notice a difference and either can the original 01 ECM. This MT Insight with it's CVT sourced ICE holds lean burn at 65 mph like any other well-maintained Insight.

[Cobb]

Wow........... Thanks for sharing.

[Kevin Dougherty]

Any problem with the install...motormounts, wire harness, clearance issues? Was it plug & play?

Pictures... ?

[MN Driver]

Nice!! Well done Fabio and Brent!

This gives us a more universal option for engine swaps. I'd imagine with a slightly lower compression ratio that the performance might be slightly less but if lean burn still operates, there is not much to complain about. ...especially if it becomes hard to source engines. I don't really see many engine failures here though so it might not be a problem but it's nice to know we have the option.
Now I'm wondering what it takes to get lean burn working with a CVT. Is the CVT handled through the same unit as the engine, if that is the case, sourcing one from Japan is the only option. If they are separate, it seems it would be a pretty simple change to get it working.

[2000_Insight_#882]

Maybe in some ways, your CVT is better than the MT.

Driving my MT Insight on 5th gear, with a high tachometer reading, it's obvious a higher gear is needed when driving down a long steep mountain &/or strong tailwind traveling around 80 mph with lean burn on. I wonder if a CVT with lean burn might be the best option for this scenario?

Overall, I bet the CVT with lean burn may yield better mpg. I named one great advantage, the top end gear ratio on CVT is much higher than the MT.

The top end ratio on the CVT is 0.407
Manual Transmission 5th gear is 0.710

Now, if we had two Insights, CVT & MT, that are both driving the exact ideal conditions or better to the level were the CVT can maintain it's maximum high-end gear ratio 0.407 with lean burn on, how will the mpg charts compare between the two hybrids?

Congratulations on the lean burn upgrade, brilliant.

[MN Driver]

2000_Insight_#882, An excellent question. As far as I know, It doesn't seem like we have anyone with a Japanese lean-burn CVT here to answer this question, I wish we did though. I think some of them ended up imported to UK soil from what I've read here but I never heard of MPG results or how the CVT and lean-burn nuances go together.

[RobertSmalls]

Originally Posted by MN Driver

Now I'm wondering what it takes to get lean burn working with a CVT. Is the CVT handled through the same unit as the engine, if that is the case, sourcing one from Japan is the only option. If they are separate, it seems it would be a pretty simple change to get it working.

That's an interesting question. Could you just run two ECU's? Have both of them see all the sensors, have the MT ECU run the fuel injection, ignition, and gauge cluster, and have the CVT one run the transmission and IMA? Sure, it's 50-100 wires to splice and a permanent Check Engine Light, but you want Lean Burn, right?

[RobertSmalls]

Originally Posted by 2000_Insight_#882

Maybe in some ways, your CVT is better than the MT.

Driving my MT Insight on 5th gear, with a high tachometer reading, it's obvious a higher gear is needed when driving down a long steep mountain &/or strong tailwind traveling around 80 mph with lean burn on. I wonder if a CVT with lean burn might be the best option for this scenario?

Overall, I bet the CVT with lean burn may yield better mpg. I named one great advantage, the top end gear ratio on CVT is much higher than the MT.

The top end ratio on the CVT is 0.407
Manual Transmission 5th gear is 0.710

Now, if we had two Insights, CVT & MT, that are both driving the exact ideal conditions or better to the level were the CVT can maintain it's maximum high-end gear ratio 0.407 with lean burn on, how will the mpg charts compare between the two hybrids?

Congratulations on the lean burn upgrade, brilliant.

CVTs from most manufacturers have (much) higher internal losses than gearboxes. I've heard it speculated this is why the US CVT didn't get lean burn: it wouldn't produce enough power to cruise at US highway speeds, which were at the time 60-65mph.

My gut feeling is that the Insight's road load is too high - aerodynamics are poor - to be able to make much use of a lower gear ratio.

[MN Driver]

I figured that the CVT might play an active role in lean burn so that it could maintain itself near the 2500rpm when the demand is there to provide a little extra power when needed while maintaining the 65/70mpg range that hangs on to lean burn.

...but I suppose since the car doesn't utilize its battery pack to do anything similar that I shouldn't hold the optimism that Honda would design it that way.

It seems that Honda didn't really put anything into the MT car to help us obtain and hold lean burn, other than the instant MPG in the FCD. If we had a little display that would help us with the throttle position to hold it at to get lean burn and at what point to stop to avoid dropping out of lean burn and some sort of way of finding out when it just won't do it based on temperature or those weird times it refuses for no apparent reason while I sit at 100mpg waiting and loses speed for nothing and then losing MPG and battery or an extra shift trying to catch up with my speed again.

We'd almost need to control the CVT manually along with MIMA to get it to work right on the highway. ...maybe. [/endrant]

[J-P]

I think your on to something here. The CVT with a lean burn would out perform the manual trns car on the highway. I only say this because the CVT in the Fit and the Civic have higher mpg than the manual counterparts. A CVT with lean burn might be the ultimate for mpg.