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Old 10-21-2010, 11:06 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Lightbulb Using Lead Acid UPS Batteries to Charge off the Grid? Junkyard SCORE!

I stopped in my local recycling center to drop off a few things and scrounge for computer power supplies to reuse their casings, unfortunately with no luck.

However, I did find these very long, heavy UPS units that look like they were a part of some industrial rack mount server set up. I grabbed two and stuck them in my trunk, as I figured the cases might be useful in the future.

But when I got home and cracked them open, I found perfectly good batteries at or above 12v and already wired in series, giving 100+ volts per setup. I took off a couple of batteries and wired the two packs together to give 177v, exactly what I had been advised by Mike D to set as the top end for the basic grid chargers.


Junkyard Score! by Artric, on Flickr

I stuck them in my trunk open just to see them in place. The current cases could be used, but with some modification. I figure that these wouldn't work as a replacement for a parallel pack, because the batteries state a max draw of 2.8A. However, if you're in a spot where you can't plug in (like at work, if you've got a job, or at the mall, etc). They're also 7AH, which should be more than enough capacity. But how would these batteries respond to significant cycling?


Charging Off The Grid? by Artric, on Flickr

The 2.8A is more than enough, and something would have to be put in line with something to limit the current. Cobb mentioned using PWM, but I'd have to do some learning in that area. Suggestions?

What do you guys think... would it be worthwhile? It seems in certain situations, where you might drive 25-50 miles one way and not have an opportunity to charge for the trip back, it might work well. But this would be offset by around 70lbs of weight (assumed as they say 40lbs per pack, minus two of the batteries).

Alternatively, they could be wired up in Parallel and an AC-DC converter could be used (stripped from a standard UPS) to power a grid charger. The low power 350ma wouldn't be enough to give you a good charge over the course of a few hours, but running it in parallel with my 1.05A lunchbox charger could give a significant boost while spending a couple of hours in the mall, etc. But that's an extra step and more power would be lost, giving off more unwanted heat in the cabin, no?


"Delta" - 1A Lunchbox Charger by Artric, on Flickr

Note that this unit is not limited in any way, so there are no protections against forgetting and leaving both running, pushing 1.4A into the pack for a number of hours. A lamp timer or other shutdown circuit would be needed. I'm working on learning Arduino with a new friend and may integrate that into my system to cut it off at a certain voltage, temperature, or under other conditions. It's a really neat platform.

Any ideas on putting these puppies to use, or advice as to why even tinkering like this is a bad idea, please feel free to let me know!
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Last edited by Artric; 10-21-2010 at 11:09 PM.
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Old 10-22-2010, 06:03 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Most of its adult time, UPS battery rarely see any real action. However, daily traction application inside ev/phev is something completely different. So, you might consider as bare minimum protection/balancer based on zener diods, otherwise the cycle life will be even shorter than short.
Here:Malcolm Faed's Electric Vehicle Blog: Battery Balancing the cheap way
http://a4x4kiwi.blogspot.com/search/label/balance

Last edited by Mesuge; 10-22-2010 at 06:07 AM.
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Old 10-22-2010, 10:27 AM   #3 (permalink)
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A simple current limiting circuit could be setup to allow one way spillover from the lead acid to your main pack. Connection points would be the same that your charger uses. The only thing I don't like about battery charging battery systems is the massive amounts of loss that can occur and the additional wear .... in this case on the lead acid cell batteries.


Some stuff about lm 317's, the lm317 block inside of the two capacitors in that schematic is what you would need.

Regulators and Power Supplies

I used two paralleled circuits to achieve ~700mA for my previous charger.
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Old 10-22-2010, 10:52 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Great, thanks for the info!

I don't see this as a long term solution, or really an actual solution, really just more of an experiment. It's nice to have options, and you can't beat FREE!

I'll post back if I make any progress, but I'm expecting parts soon for a handful of chargers, so that'll probably keep me busy.
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Old 10-22-2010, 11:15 AM   #5 (permalink)
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I think you could get a few hundred cycles out with limiting depth of discharge to 50%. Your main problem will be maintaining balance in the string, but only going down 50% will reduce the balance issues and extend the service life.

I think you could pull more than 2.8 amps -- that's only 0.4C. You should be able to pull ~0.6C (4.2 amps) for 1 hour to full discharge, or 4.2 amps for 30 minutes to 50% DoD.

It's not clear to me, are you treating this as a PHEV, where you feed current while the car is running (why not?), or a trickle charger while the car is off?
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Old 10-25-2010, 01:58 AM   #6 (permalink)
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I was thinking as a trickle charger while the car was off. I didn't think it would be able to provide sufficient amperage while the car is running in the same way that another parallel Insight pack would.
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Old 11-01-2010, 09:50 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Be careful
There is a lot of magic smoke potential in what you are proposing
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Old 11-02-2010, 04:01 AM   #8 (permalink)
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So far I have seen nothing that actually confirms your impression that these batteries are still good.

Your description sounds much more like a deeply discharged, probably sulphated battery with poor capacity.

I'd test it a bit more before wasting all too much time on planning what to do with it!
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Old 11-06-2010, 07:50 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Well, one of them was good enough to replace the dead battery on our 1984 Honda Spree. cranks over endlessly like a charm!

What other tests would you propose I run on these batteries?
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Selling Limited Number of Grid Charger Kits click here for more info!

I'm not electric, I just coast a lot.

91.49 MPG Ownership Avg, Best Tank: 1203 Miles @ 115.1 MPG with gas to spare. #InsightFTW! Now With 100% More MIMA & a custom grid charger... or two! Newest mod: Peter's BCM Gauge, love it!

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Old 11-06-2010, 10:35 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artric View Post
Well, one of them was good enough to replace the dead battery on our 1984 Honda Spree. cranks over endlessly like a charm!

What other tests would you propose I run on these batteries?
I would test the capacity of all the batteries at the sort of load you are intending to use it for.

I'd also try to figure out if these batteries are intended to be cycled deeply repeatedly. They might just be intended for the odd power failure here and there.
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