You might have already seen in another thread in Problems and Troubleshooting that I just yesterday had my car into the dealer for them to pull codes related to the IMA light that came on last Saturday night. They pulled two, 77 and 37. Code 77, I know, is the battery pack...and that's being addressed in discussion with Honda.
But Code 37, they tell me, is related to the DC/DC converter (though they didn't explain exactly what it meant).
My concerns are many: First, this is a pricey bit of hardware! My dealer quoted a price of $2,000 for the part alone (though I've found it at Majestic Honda for $1399). Second, I don't think I've ever seen this DC/DC converter being covered by the 10-year extended warranty and third, what exactly does this code mean? Imminent failure? Not effectively charging the 12V battery? Will I be disabled and at the side of the road if the 12V suddenly doesn't have a charge? If Code 37 merely points to diminished performance from the DC/DC Converter, what should I be watching for that would indicate the problem is growing?
You might have already seen in another thread in Problems and Troubleshooting that I just yesterday had my car into the dealer for them to pull codes related to the IMA light that came on last Saturday night. They pulled two, 77 and 37. Code 77, I know, is the battery pack...and that's being addressed in discussion with Honda.
But Code 37, they tell me, is related to the DC/DC converter (though they didn't explain exactly what it meant).
My concerns are many: First, this is a pricey bit of hardware! My dealer quoted a price of $2,000 for the part alone (though I've found it at Majestic Honda for $1399). Second, I don't think I've ever seen this DC/DC converter being covered by the 10-year extended warranty and third, what exactly does this code mean? Imminent failure? Not effectively charging the 12V battery? Will I be disabled and at the side of the road if the 12V suddenly doesn't have a charge? If Code 37 merely points to diminished performance from the DC/DC Converter, what should I be watching for that would indicate the problem is growing?
The DC/DC converter runs all your 12volt systems, without it the car won't run. You'll be able to buy a used converter on ebay for $200 or so.
The DC/DC converter runs all your 12volt systems, without it the car won't run. You'll be able to buy a used converter on ebay for $200 or so.
No, he has an IMA light, the IMA system will disable the DC/DC converter. He doesn't need to replace the DC/DC converter. Instead he needs to bypass what is disabling it, the BCM by unplugging the BCM connections.
Since this is a first poster and we get this question on a weekly basis and I don't know peoples electrical background when they post without searching, I'm less inclined to help with this one every time this question comes up.
Please search the forum and you will find out how to drive without the IMA battery and still keep the DC/DC active by turning off the IMA switch and removing the BCM connection that has the DC/DC inhibit wire.
No, he has an IMA light, the IMA system will disable the DC/DC converter. He doesn't need to replace the DC/DC converter. Instead he needs to bypass what is disabling it, the BCM by unplugging the BCM connections.
Since this is a first poster and we get this question on a weekly basis and I don't know peoples electrical background when they post without searching, I'm less inclined to help with this one every time this question comes up.
Please search the forum and you will find out how to drive without the IMA battery and still keep the DC/DC active by turning off the IMA switch and removing the BCM connection that has the DC/DC inhibit wire.
MN Driver, while I can appreciate your frustration, I also go back to the late '80s as a SysOp on a Compuserve forum and I well know how human nature is to simply ask for the help. You assume, frankly, that the topic is a) easy to search (you need to know what words to use to have any hope of getting to the best info) and that b) search will bring up a targeted answer when, in fact, it typically brings up a load of discussion, often full of conflicting opinions and information.
I think the Knowledge Base is where one might expect to find collected (and edited) answers to questions that are now annoying you with their frequency. It appears to be a resource that could be expaned.
As to your first comment...I'm not a DIY guy. Whatever it is that I "need" to do, I'm not likely to be the one to do it. What I was after was some advice related to continuing to drive the car -- not with IMA disabled, necessarily but, rather, simply knowing that the Code 77 showed a problem.
To that end, another trip to the dealer today resulted in two hybrid techs expressing some frustration that Code 77 does not offer them a trouble-shooting path...but they both said that if I've been driving the car around since Saturday night (all day Sunday, all day yesterday and so far today) without the 12V battery dying on me. Since it hasn't, the tech now believes that Code 77 could just as easily mean that the DC-DC converter *is* charging the 12V but not the IMA pack (however, my charge meter is still very strong, even after 2+ days of driving since the light first appeared...perhaps I never get into the Assist all that hard and brake regen and downhill is enough to keep it charged).
To that end, another trip to the dealer today resulted in two hybrid techs expressing some frustration that Code 77 does not offer them a trouble-shooting path...but they both said that if I've been driving the car around since Saturday night (all day Sunday, all day yesterday and so far today) without the 12V battery dying on me. Since it hasn't, the tech now believes that Code 77 could just as easily mean that the DC-DC converter *is* charging the 12V but not the IMA pack (however, my charge meter is still very strong, even after 2+ days of driving since the light first appeared...perhaps I never get into the Assist all that hard and brake regen and downhill is enough to keep it charged).
??? What ??? The DC-DC converter gets the power to step down to 12v from the 144V battery pack....IF the DC-DC converter is working properly but the 144V pack is no longer getting charged, eventually, you may need to call one of those two techs to pick you up because you may be stranded on the road.
The DC-DC converter does not charge the IMA pack.
It is good that you have a volt meter handy but once that 12v stops getting charged, it goes downhill pretty quick.
Earlier suggestions involve running the car without an IMA battery and it is possible to do so if you disconnect certain cables from the some of the IMA controllers. Working with high voltage in that area is dangerous and it seems like from your comments that you will not be doing that anyway.
But your original question of how important the DC-DC converter is?
It is the device that allows your 12v system to remain running....If you are familiar with a typical car alternator, this Insight does not have one. Instead, it relies on the DC-DC converter to charge the 12v battery. Once the power source for the DC-DC conveter is depleted (since your IMA battery may or may not be accepting any charge), your 12v battery will soon be depleted afterwards.....Then you are stranded.
It seems strange that the only code the HYBRID techs code find is 77 and 37....They couldn't find anything like P1449 or P1447.....Did they use a scan gauge or did they just count the IMA light blink codes? Code 77 and 37 sound like blink codes to me.
I don't know how else to answer your original question besides that the DC-DC converter IS needed for daily commuting and if it is disabled due to an IMA light OR soon will be disabled due to a depletion of the power resource, both are signs of trouble ahead.
Just curious, are the hybrid techs from Honda?
JoeCVT = Just your average CVT owner
__________________
2004 CVT Red Insight (purchased May 2011)
Relocated outside temp sensor near mid engine
No other mods performed yet
2003 CVT Blue Insight
Modified version of MIMA_L (with foot pedal)
Automatic warm air intake (all season)
Low Speed Auto Stop (LSAS)
ABS - IMA regen enabler (allows regen during ABS)
Relocated outside temp sensor near mid engine
Cooling fans powered by 12V Solar Panel
2001 MT Blue Insight (purchased Nov 2011)
Not registered yet
I'm not a DIY guy. Whatever it is that I "need" to do, I'm not likely to be the one to do it.
Then you're only option left is to pay someone else to fix it for you ... at whatever cost they charge you.
This makes all DIY options are irrelevant ... same thing bites non-DIYers with anything from home repair, doing one's taxes, car repair , laundry, etc... not unusual ... most people are not DIYers... no biggie.
As others have said ... DC-DC is the Insight's version of an alternator ... You need the DC-DC in the Insight just like you need an alternator in a 'normal' car... without it running your car will eventually not run either... DC-DC activity and 12V status can easily be monitored with a basic DC volt meter via the cigarette lighter outlet.
JoeCVT, yes, both techs are Honda-trained, Honda dealer employees. The printed report I was given does not include any of the codes you supplied...just the two-digit codes I posted.
As mentioned in my earlier post today, the thing that seems so puzzling is that I have now driven the car (in my usual manner and for the usual errands) for 4 full days with no problem. The 12V has not drained out (as it well should have by now, if it weren't being recharged, no?)...and the Battery meter for the IMA pack still shows full or only slightly depleted (like, 2-3 bars down), with Assist and Charge occurring per usual.
So, if some system, some converter, some thing thinks that a) the IMA is failing and b) not recharging the 12V...then why am I not stranded at the side of the road (depleted 12V) and still driving with plenty of charge in the IMA?
Is the 12v battery light still on? If you have assist and regen, it sounds like your car still has IMA functionality and the 12v battery light probably isn't on right now, therefore your DC/DC is functioning.
MN Driver, if you mean the little battery icon in the lower left of the quadrant that's surrounded by the tach, then the "12V battery light" was never on (once started, at least). I didn't report that it was. The only indicator light that has come on is the IMA light (which is still on because the dealer guys don't want to clear out the data just yet).
So, if I'm interpreting you correctly...if I have Assist and Regen (I do) and the 12v battery light is not on (it hasn't been)...then the IMA and the DC/DC are both running properly? Could that be? Is there such a thing as a false IMA or codes that are "flukey"?
I'm not saying that it is running properly but if you have assist and regen showing up that it is operating. It might be in a limp mode waiting for it to detect further failure, I'm not sure what yours is doing exactly.
If the 12v battery is not on(yes the one right in the same section as the check engine light), then you don't have to worry about the 12v battery causing you to be stuck at the side of the road.
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How critical is the DC/DC converter?
