Insight as a base for X-prize

[danpittenger]

Here's to dreaming...

What if we pooled the talent here? Installed high capacity L-ion batteries, a larger electric motor, MIMA, grid charger, shaved the mirrors, removed the power steering, modified the underbody, modified the on-board charging system for higher output, installed a limiter on the gasoline engine?

Could an AVERAGE driver get greater than 100mpg combined?

[RobertSmalls]

I'm all in favor of dreaming. What would result from a big-budget, all-out effort at improving the efficiency of the Insight?

You'd start with an aero-modded Insight, with a smooth underbelly and an aerodynamic tail extension a la 3-Wheeler. Remove the passenger side mirror as I have done, and replace the driver's side one with a bicycle or motorcycle mirror. Install a thermostatically controlled grille block as Piwoslaw from EcoModder.com has done to his station wagon. Also hyperinflate the RE92's.

According to my analysis, 75mpg at 75mi/hr is within reach, but only in warm weather. Colder weather means you'd still struggle for lean burn at rural interstate speeds. Mods to the IMA system wouldn't have much effect on interstate mpg, so I think you're stuck with 75mpg on a good day.

The electrical mods you mentioned will help around town. However, what the Insight really needs for low speed, stop and go duty is an electric motor that can drive and brake the car without turning the engine. The Prius can do this, and it means you can get out of the parking lot or through slow traffic without all the wasteful ICE use that a stock Insight has.

The batteries make the vehicle a dual-fuel vehicle, running on a combination of electricity and gasoline. Of course, if you use enough electricity, you can get well in excess of 100mpg, but perhaps you should adjust for the kWh you use as well. Plugging in hasn't reduced the life cycle energy consumption or CO2 footprint of my car, but it has reduced my gasoline usage.

The Insight was very efficient to begin with, but there's room for improvement. Still, I figure the "average" driver in a stock Insight would get around 55lmpg in a climate that includes winter. 100mpg is far too much to expect, but perhaps 65-70mpg is within reach. If the driver insists on keeping up with traffic but is willing to drive intelligently, I think 75-80lmpg can be expected.

[danpittenger]

I see you are in Buffalo...

I'm in Northern VT, and on our little rural state highways I can get 70 mpg on my way to work (36 miles) without trying THAT hard, BUT the temperature has to be above 0 F. Earlier this week, I got a whopping 38 mpg when it was -30 F here.

The insight gets grumpy around 30 below, along with everyone else on the road.

I haven't had my insight long enough to experience any temps above 30 degrees, but I bet I can get better once it's warmer.

That said, if some random idiot like me can get 70 mpg out of a bone stock, snow and road salt caked insight, 100mpg shouldn't be out of the question.

[IamIan]

I think if there was multi-million dollar budget the Gen-1 Insight could be modded up to ~100 MPG... but it will always increasingly expensive to keep squeezing 1 more after 1 more after 1 more ... etc... and the nut behind the wheel is always the biggest unknown.

In addition to what was already listed ... I would also include in a unlimited budget Insight ...

waste heat heat recovery radiator and exhaust ... more than 50% of the energy content of every gallon of gasoline is currently being thrown away.

Body panel exchange for photovoltaic panels of the same or better aerodynamics , and the same or lighter weight.

Install photovoltaic tinted glass ... will reduce AC usage in summer ... and will generate electrical power instead of just a regular dye type of tinting.

Meredith effect jet thrust from the waste heat we can't recover and from the exhaust gas pressure.

Include a completed 2nd clutch project 4 graduate engineering students at the university of Michigan worked on about ~6 years ago now.

Efficiency driving map programs... for the most efficient route.

Force the ICE to always stay in it's highest efficiency lean burn state ... power to keep acceleration and such would come from the larger IMA motor already posted previously.

A real time display of vehicle operating efficiency ... ideally with the ability to switch to view the components of that efficiency.

Down size the gasoline tank ... if we are getting ~100 MPG 3 or 4 gallons should be plenty.

A waste heat recovery system for an improved climate control system ... in the summer we have a mini solar oven collecting heat with the windows up ... what can't be directly converted via photovoltaic systems should be converted other ways indirectly.

Include exercise pedal generators ... every tiny bits helps ... and on long road trips the physical activity would be welcome to some ... like me.

Of course LED lights all around.

Front wheel skirts.

Seal the engine compartment ... we want all the heated air to go the way we want it in controlled waste heat recovery systems ... not just get thrown away.

I think that is it off the top of my head ... for my own short list ... in addition to what others already posted... the cost is the killer

[red1dr]

Originally Posted by danpittenger

Here's to dreaming...

What if we pooled the talent here? Installed high capacity L-ion batteries, a larger electric motor, MIMA, grid charger, shaved the mirrors, removed the power steering, modified the underbody, modified the on-board charging system for higher output, installed a limiter on the gasoline engine?

Could an AVERAGE driver get greater than 100mpg combined?

I believe an Insight-I WAS used as the chassis for one of the X-Prize entries last year.

I think the X-Prize has strict rules regarding driving route and speeds. I was never able to find them. So it really is 100mpg under a specific set of conditions.

The drivers of the X-Prize entrants probably weren't "average". The goal of 100mpg with an "average" driver might be much tougher.

[IamIan]

Originally Posted by red1dr

I believe an Insight-I WAS used as the chassis for one of the X-Prize entries last year.

It was called Foursight
Team FourSight | Progressive Automotive XPRIZE
It was a converted diesel hybrid, with 2 seats in the rear to make it a 4 setter.

And there was a team from Washington that used the Gen-1 Honda Insight's power train including ICE and IMA translated into a carbon fiber vehicle shell... Viking 45 I think it was??

Originally Posted by red1dr

The drivers of the X-Prize entrants probably weren't "average". The goal of 100mpg with an "average" driver might be much tougher.

the nut behind the wheel is usually huge.

[Artric]

Originally Posted by danpittenger

Here's to dreaming...

What if we pooled the talent here? Installed high capacity L-ion batteries, a larger electric motor, MIMA, grid charger, shaved the mirrors, removed the power steering, modified the underbody, modified the on-board charging system for higher output, installed a limiter on the gasoline engine?

Could an AVERAGE driver get greater than 100mpg combined?

Average driver? No. They will always have their foot into it to go faster. They need to be educated to get 100MPG. We can modify the car all we want, but if we don't teach them, they'll still top out around 60MPG.