IMA BetterBattery?

muffin · 06-15-2011, 03:17 AM

Hi there,

I wonder what are your thoughts about the IMA BetterBattery from Hybrid-Battery-Repair.com?

Also, can be used with Mike grid charger?

I am seriously consider it for the next time that I need a new one.

J

**Hybrid-Battery-Repair** · 06-15-2011, 03:42 PM

Mike Dabrowski's grid chargers are approved for use with BetterBattery packs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by muffin

Hi there,

I wonder what are your thoughts about the IMA BetterBattery from Hybrid-Battery-Repair.com?

Also, can be used with Mike grid charger?

I am seriously consider it for the next time that I need a new one.

J

racer26 · 06-16-2011, 09:52 AM

Based on Eli and H-B-R's anecdotal evidence on here, I'd say that Ron's replacement IMA batteries are the best drop-in replacement for an Insight battery. Even better than the OEM factory batteries.

Eli · 06-16-2011, 11:03 AM

I plan on posting a full update regarding the new pack ASAP. Life has just gotten in the way of playing with the toys as of late.

I continue to be very impressed by the new pack. One thing I have noticed consistantly thus far is that while holding full assist with MIMA, the computers will actually notch current up. This is quite a profound revelation, and is completely opposite of the stock pack, where the computers slowly notch current down as assist is held full.

To me, it seems like this is what Honda had in mind - but the stock cells just don't deliver. Our stock cells drop to 124V under full load from a high SoC - and under 120V under full load from a lower SoC. This is not a good thing. I believe that our cars are extremely hard on the stock cells, and I'm almost surprised they last as long as they do under these conditions.

Because the new pack's voltage does not sag as low as the stock pack, you actually get MORE power with LESS assist amperage.

Example from data I've collected so far:

Stock pack peaked at 88A @ 124V = 10.9kW
New pack peaked at 81A @ 142V = 11.5kW

I hope to illustrate these phenomenon with more data logging and my mountain runs very soon. The battery electronics definitely seem to enjoy these robust new cells, and I highly recommend them. This is how it should have been from the beginning.

TN_engineer · 08-28-2011, 04:02 PM

I have recently installed a BetterBattery in my 2003 CVT Insight, and I haven't a had any problems with it so far. I had attempted to rebalance the pack stick by stick last winter, going through the whole charging and discharging cycling , and even switching out the sticks that held less charge than the other ones with sticks from another battery, but ultimately it didn't work, so the car has been driven for about a year with no IMA battery, with a definite decrease in starting torque and acceleration. Since I have put in the new battery my wife hasn't reported any problems with it. Hybrid-battery-repair did give me a discount for sending them my old battery pack and the civic pack from a junkyard that I had tried to repair my original pack with. At $1800 for a brand newly manufactured pack with higher energy storage capacity, it seems to beat hands down the $2400 quote I got from Honda for their refurbished pack. The only downside is that the warranty is only 1 year, and during that time they said not to use a grid charger on it, except for the one that they offer for sale with the BetterBattery. I didn't get their charger as I am on the waiting list for Mike Dabrowski's grid charger, and their grid charger trickle charged at a rate that was different that Mike's recommended maximum rate of 350 mA, though I don't quite remember what that rate was unfortunately. It is not even posted on their Hybrid-Battery-Repair website that they offer a grid charger, and they only offer it with the BetteryBattery, they said. I am hoping mine will work well for many years to come, and I just got window tinting which I hope will keep the interior cooler during the summers and prolong the battery life. If anyone has any questions I will try to answer what I know.

**jeff652** · 08-28-2011, 07:49 PM

Mine is on order and I am in the 3 week 'wait period'. The trickle charger (which I opted for) is 250 mah due to the decreased resistance of the batteries.

**Hybrid-Battery-Repair** · 08-29-2011, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TN_engineer

The only downside is that the warranty is only 1 year, and during that time they said not to use a grid charger on it, except for the one that they offer for sale with the BetterBattery.

I think you misunderstood me. You can use grid chargers based on Mike Dabrowski's designs. We just aren't sure they will work properly. The charge curve of the BetterBattery cells is different from the stock cells and his charge termination logic may not work properly (it may not fully charge the pack). We won't know until it is done and it can be tested. I'm sure Mike will adjust his software to handle BetterBattery cells if necessary.

Also, you can use a grid charger, but you shouldn't unless you park the car for an extended time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TN_engineer

I didn't get their charger as I am on the waiting list for Mike Dabrowski's grid charger, and their grid charger trickle charged at a rate that was different that Mike's recommended maximum rate of 350 mA, though I don't quite remember what that rate was unfortunately.

We were originally going to use a 250 Ma charger, but went with the 350 Ma charger instead to allow for overnight charging instead of "day and a half" charging. Remember that BetterBattery cells take longer to charge because they are bigger.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TN_engineer

It is not even posted on their Hybrid-Battery-Repair website that they offer a grid charger, and they only offer it with the BetteryBattery, they said.

We offer it with a BetterBattery or with a repair. They are sold fairly close to our cost so that our customers can have access to an inexpensive charger and can extend the life of their new or repaired batteries even further. We do not wish to undermine Mike's grid charger project, especially since they are based on his original design.

Good luck with your new battery!

**Hybrid-Battery-Repair** · 08-29-2011, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeff652

Mine is on order and I am in the 3 week 'wait period'. The trickle charger (which I opted for) is 250 mah due to the decreased resistance of the batteries.

We actually went with a 350 Ma design instead to make overnight charging possible. We found the resistance to only be an issue at extremely low SOC, which your car won't let your battery ever get to. If someone needs to charge a very dead BetterBattery (like after a two year sit), they will have to charge for one hour, then stop for 20 minutes and then start charging again. Not a big deal.

**jeff652** · 08-29-2011, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hybrid-Battery-Repair

. . . Also, you can use a grid charger, but you shouldn't unless you park the car for an extended time.

Just to clarify, what you are referring to above is the 'high' powered overnight grid charge, as opposed to the 'low' powered 350mah overnight trickle charge mentioned below?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hybrid-Battery-Repair

We actually went with a 350 Ma design instead to make overnight charging possible.

**Hybrid-Battery-Repair** · 08-29-2011, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeff652

Just to clarify, what you are referring to above is the 'high' powered overnight grid charge, as opposed to the 'low' powered 350mah overnight trickle charge?

ANY grid charger. It's not needed for a new battery and it is not yet known if there are any negative long-term effects from frequent charging.

We DO recommend a trickle charge if the car has sat for 4+ days or if the battery is malfunctioning.